James Fadiman and Jordan Gruber: Psychedelics Legalization Will Continue No Matter Who Is President

The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie

You've probably heard about microdosing, which involves taking a small, "sub-perceptual" dose of psychedelics like LSD or psilocybin on a regular basis to ward off depression, anxiety, and chronic pain—or to optimize focus and boost energy.

Today's guests are James Fadiman and Jordan Gruber, authors of the new book Microdosing for Health, Healing, and Enhanced Performance. Fadiman, a Stanford-trained research psychologist who has been working with psychedelics since the early 1960s, popularized the concept of microdosing over a decade ago. They talk with Reason's Nick Gillespie about the mechanics of and theory behind microdosing, its promise and limits, and how it fits into the larger psychedelic renaissance that has been flowering for most of the 21st century. And they discuss the prospects for legalization and cultural normalization of psychedelics under the Trump administration.

1:19 — New book: Microdosing for Health, Healing, and Enhanced Performance
5:12 — How Fadiman discovered microdosing
8:10 — How Gruber began microdosing
8:57 — Microdosing is similar to a vitamin protocol
11:17 — MDMA, ketamine, and cannabis work differently
12:50 — Microdosing for depression
16:02 — Other conditions microdosing could help alleviate
19:09 — Is microdosing for life?
21:17 — How to quantify the efficacy of microdosing
30:14 — Psychedelics and drug law
37:30 — Psychedelic-assisted therapy
39:40 — Psychedelics and their benefits are nonideological
46:15 — Fadiman and Gruber's 2020 book: Your Symphony of Selves
53:45 — Drug legalization under Donald Trump

Today's sponsor:

• The Reason Speakeasy. The Reason Speakeasy is a monthly, unscripted conversation in New York City with outspoken defenders of free thinking and heterodoxy in an age of intellectual conformity and groupthink. It doubles as a live taping of The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie podcast. The next one takes place on Tuesday, April 8, with Jeffrey Singer, who recently authored Your Body, Your Health Care. Go here to buy tickets and go here to sign up for Reason's NYC Events newsletter.

• Video Editor: Ian Keyser

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