302: Why Should I Even Bother to Vote?

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Welcome to Out of the Question, a podcast that looks behind some common questions and uncovers the question behind the question while providing real solutions for biblical world and life view. Your host is Andrea Swartz, a teacher and mentor and founder of the Chalcedon Teacher Training Institute.

Thanks for tuning in to this edition of Out of the Question. How many times have you heard recently, this year, 2024 is the most consequential election in our country’s history. And not just one political party or news pundits repeat this, we hear it over and over. The propaganda machines are oiled and running as Christians are cornered into thinking that if they don’t have clear godly choices, maybe they just shouldn’t vote at all. My guest today, Ricardo Davis, is here to answer the question, Why should I even bother to vote? Ricardo has a long and impressive resume as a political activist dating back to 1984, where he has been active in the Constitution Party of Georgia and your right to life, among other things. He is active in seeing to it that voter integrity is maintained and is relentless in identifying that our only true hope is in obedience to God’s law word. He also happens to be a husband and a father. Thanks, Ricardo, for joining me today.

You are so welcome. And again, I’m honored to be here, Andre. I’ve been a fan of the podcast for quite a while.

All right. Well, thank you for that. Now, when we discussed having you on the program, you told me that you wanted to emphasize the principle of the voters’ accountability. You said that the voter is accountable to the Lord to obey him regarding the selection of our representatives, although there are many hindrances and roadblocks to exercising that prerogative. What did you mean by that?

Well, there’s the hindrance is one being in the choices we have. There’s one, and then there’s the hindrance of the selection process itself. This is one of those areas where I do believe the message of calcium that is to actually take responsibility and build will hopefully have more traction as we enter into this season of our nation and our community’s history. It’s very accurate.

You also pointed out that one option most pastors and pundens omit is that if you aren’t represented by a particular political party or organization, then you must take some level of responsibility to build something that promotes biblical morals and ethics with an eye to the future. In other words, you don’t have good choices now, grow them.

Yes, I’m 60 now, so I’ve seen a lot of politics in my lifetime. One thing that I’ve realized pretty early is that if you just allow the system to make your selections for you and you don’t take an active role in the process of getting to those selections, nothing will change.

Agreed. Now, you are definitely not a Johnny come lately. I looked at your resume, we go back to the mid ’80s. So we’re talking 40 years and maybe interspersed through all that or other things that you didn’t even list on the resume. But here’s the thing. A lot of people have this wake up. Oh, man, We’re not doing things the way we should. Then they think it’s like a half hour TV program, a 60 minute TV program. We’re going to get this done right here and now. Why is that really dooming people to be frustrated, disappointed, and then giving up?

Well, because there’s very little satisfaction when you look at the process in that constrained time frame. For example, people are looking right now just in the current presidential election. We haven’t even gotten to the election yet. The Republicans champion, which a lot of Christians, and especially our pro-life folks, have been out there saying, Oh, we got to vote. It seems the further we get into the campaign, the more disappointing the Republican nominee has Then it raises questions. I think what we need to do is we need to take the long view. I would say, again, one of the things I’ve learned from Dr. Rush doing in, the folks there at Cal Seedon, is when we take the multi-generational view, in other words, are my actions today helping build something so that my grandchildren and great grandchildren can not only receive the fruit of, but carry it forward. That is the mindset that I am trying to bring into the world of political action.

Now, it’s so easy for people to say, Well, what good has that done? 1984, 40 years, what’s been accomplished? Well, without the work and the foundational principles that you laid, would we have such a stark antithesis of the party, for example, that wants to kill children, maim children, make sure that they can’t reproduce? Then the other party, now, we don’t have to say, Look, they took certain things out of their platform, but there still is a stark difference. They’re not going around saying, Let’s kill children. That’s our hope. That’s our future. Let’s mutilate them. If people don’t see that as part and parcel of work that people like you have done for the past 40 years, then they’re missing it because the tears are showing themselves to be what they are. I mean, for goodness’ sake. They are, exactly. At first, I thought it was a Babylon bee thing that at the DNC Convention, that they had a bus out there offering vasectomies and chemical abortions. I was like, Whoa, that’s funny, only to discover it was true. I think the term is called epistemological self-consciousness.

Self-consciousness?

Yeah, that’s it. They’re not hiding it anymore. They’re running on it. What pushed that antithesis if it wasn’t the likes of people like you?

We definitely have been able to put a dent But I think part of the challenge, Andrea, is that in the face of, how did King Théodem put it, such reckless hate, we tend to back up and say, Oh, wow, I didn’t expect this. This is part of what it means to stand as a soldier of Christ. In other words, when the Bible exhorts us to not be afraid of sudden terror, well, it’s the expectation of, yes, in a wicked, broken world, it will rear its head.

Right. What’s so surprising about pagans acting like pagans, people who hate life acting as those who hate life? I think there’s this naiveté that says, yes, we’re willing to fight But only if the fight is quick because I’m just getting too tired.

Ricardo, are you tired?

You’ve been doing this for almost 40 years. Are you tired?

Actually, I’m more encouraged now more than ever.

Now, that may seem crazy to people. You tell me why. Why are you more encouraged now than ever?

Well, you put a part of it out there. In other words, back in 2022, when Georgia Right to Life had its annual big fundraising event, the big dinner down in Atlanta. One of the things that I was able to communicate was that one of the primary objectives of the pro-life movement that many of us didn’t see that there would be any movement on, that is the wicked precedent set by the Roe v Wade decision, that we would see it come down in our lifetime. But yet and still, that one big rock didn’t just get moved. It got flucked up by the roof and thrown into the sea.

Some people, and this is, I think it’s really important, and I’m glad you brought it up, would say, Yeah, but there’s still abortion that happens in our country. Well, yes, we know that. We knew that the problem with Roe v Wade was that a Supreme Court decision set law, which it never did, but people took it that way. Why Why are people unwilling to take the small victories? Why does it only count if it’s a huge victory?

Well, again, you have those that essentially don’t see the world for what it is. In other words, just like our salvation, once we are converted, then there’s the long walk, the long faithfulness, the ups and downs of life, the struggles that we all go through. We assume that, well, that may be the case in an individual life, but it doesn’t work that way in politics. It’s like we flip the switch and everything’s okay, and that’s just not realistic.

Nor is it cognizant of God’s plan that the Kingdoms of this world will become the Kingdoms of the Lord and of Christ. If you’re just in it for you, if you’re just in it so that, okay, I’ll be active for a little bit so that I can say I’m doing my part. It really isn’t about our part. It’s about the Kingdom of God. So does abortion have any place in a righteous society?

No.

Does homosexuality have any place in a righteous society?

Does the abrogation of the law of God have any place in a righteous society? The The answer is no, no, no, no, no, no.

Right. So some people think it’s a political battle, primarily we’re in. But I think in a lot of ways, it’s a battle within the church because You have people who are focusing on the need for personal salvation, but they don’t believe that God can save a nation. They don’t believe that God can save a culture. And part of that is they wanted to be Abracadabra as opposed to, Oh, guess what? We are the vehicles in order to produce that.

Well, yeah. And there may be some theological and eschatological things in play here that lead to that understanding. However, it just isn’t the case. You can’t even look at the history of God’s moving through history in and through his people and see that that’s the case.

A lot of people will say, Voting isn’t in the Bible, and democracy is not God’s way of doing things. He wants representative government, blah, blah, blah, blah, believers who would stand on righteous positions to get them not to vote? Is that part of the propaganda?

Oh, that’s a big part of the problem. And quite frankly, Andrea, that wouldn’t work if the men of God were preaching the whole counsel of God to the people of God. The fact that there’s such a spirit of timidity, quite frankly, in the pullpits to address these things as they present themselves in scripture. Again, in one sense, they don’t want people to look at even broaching the subject as, Oh, now he’s gone political. No, just preach the whole Council of God. Deuteronomy 1, Choose wise and discerning and experience men from your tribes. This is a command. I do like it that in the Pentateuch, it comes across not as, Oh, the national leaders, oh, the senators, the congressmen. I mean, it gets down to thousands, hundreds, and fifties, and tens.

In God’s economy, our responsibility to choose those who will exercise civil justice are much closer to us in God’s economy.

And we can talk a little bit more about how that really does need to be recovered as God’s people strengthen themselves and armor themselves in the full armor of God.

Indeed. You make a really good point. People will know who’s running for president. They may know who’s running for senator or congress. I would dare say a lot of people don’t even know the name of the mayor of their city.

Yeah, or in Georgia, we have counties, and then the administrators of the county’s business or the board of commissioners. How many people know who, not just the name, but Are they acquainted with the man or woman who represents them in the government that is closest to them?

I’ve always thought it would be a great practice to invite, we call them supervisors out here, county supervisors in California or in the city government, the district councilman or something like that. Why aren’t you asking them out for coffee? Why aren’t you getting to know them? Why don’t you know the dates of their kid’s birthday or their birthday so you can send them a birthday card? In other words, we think it all depends on this national level. Quite frankly, most of us will never talk to the person who inhabits the White House.

The White House. But the man who’s essentially responsible for the administration of government right where you live, you can drive to his house.

And the way that I think a lot of leaders get this idea of becoming elite, I don’t know that they all start off that way. I think a lot of them probably start off with a desire to serve. But when they’re treated as though they are part of this elite group and not regular people, then it’s very easy to then take the stepping stone and, okay, I was the mayor, now I can be the assemblyman. Now I can be the congressman or whatever. They get more and more distant from the people and closer to the elite, which It is part of the problem we have in all parts of our nation.

True. In one sense, Andrew, we like it like that. Otherwise, we wouldn’t pay more attention to what’s happening in our own county.

Yeah. A lot of Christians, and again, the propaganda machine made sure they knew this, that the Republican National Committee took abortion out of its platform. Now, my first thought, and maybe I’m cynical, was like, Okay, well, it’s been in the platform for a long time, and is there a lot of movement in terms of, on the local level, stopping abortion at a local level.

See, now this is one of my favorite subjects right here. The question becomes if our pro-life friends are dismayed at what happened at the Republican National Committee’s platform committee, which, quite frankly, it was a travesty. It was not representative of the delegates who were there, who took the time and expense to get there for the platform committee, and they pretty much just were given something that they had the rubber stamp. However, what can you do here where you live? For example, in Georgia, what Georgia Rides to Life is doing is We’re looking to build a culture that respects the personhood of all the souls in that community as the cornerstone for advancing personhood as the right to life for every innocent person. We do this through what… One angle of how we do this is through the Georgia’s Ending Abortion Coalition, where we’re not looking for endorsements from our coalition building with all these national groups. We’re doing this with individuals and organizations and even local political parties at the local level, the city and the county level.

Glad you brought that up because I have a funny story years ago, and I’m thinking now maybe it’s 10 or 15 years ago. There was a mayoral race in San Jose where I live, and the candidates were coming door to door. That was good. I I asked each one of them, What’s your position on abortion? The answer, first and foremost was, Well, this isn’t a partisan race, Democrat versus Republican. I said, I didn’t ask you if you were a Democrat or Republican. I asked you, What’s your position on abortion? At first, both candidates were hemming and hawing, and then at the end said, Well, this really isn’t an issue for the cities because we have to take our instruction from the state and federal government. I said, I don’t think you have to. Well, now the person was getting uncomfortable and then said, I believe in a woman’s right to choose. He didn’t even leave his brochure. I guess he figured, I’ll save this for someone. But we have to be able to see that this is, yes, it’s not a partisan issue. It’s really a matter of justice. It’s a justice issue.

Oh, and to the point you’re making, now, I just happen to have nearby, of course, this is audio, so people can’t see it, but I have a copy of Matt Truella’s, The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates here. What you’re bringing up is so crucial, and I believe very few people who are involved in the fight for life, whether it be on the abortion end, whether it be on the euthanasia, wherever. They don’t understand the dynamic here. The way God has ordered society, it is the responsibility of that man who was running for that local office. That if what happens in Sacramento is unrighteous, then that man running for mayor or that man running for supervisor, it’s his responsibility to be the bulwark to protect the people from injustice.

You brought up the idea of personhood, and I had to look back in my records, but in 2011, I interviewed Daniel Becker, who was part of Georgia Right to Life. And the issue- My predecessor, yeah. And the issue was personhood. Why is it better to frame the issue in terms of personhood rather than babies?

Well, specifically because from Dan’s perspective, his generation, when they got involved in the pro-life movement, it wasn’t because, per se, child sacrifice was barbaric, but it was because of a recognition that because that child in the womb is a person, it is a living human being endowed by its creator with certain unalienable rights, that they got involved. That ideal of coming to the word of God, Coming to the law of God and then seeing what the law of God prescribes with regard to the rights of people, doesn’t just take care of what I call the Big Three in the Pro-Life Movement, Abortion, Infanticide, and euthanasia. But let’s take a hot topic that’s going on right now, in vitro fertilization. The very year you had that interview with Dan Becker, I was actually working in Mississippi and helping out the personhood Mississippi team with an initiative basically to amend Mississippi’s Constitution to recognize the personhood of all human beings. Wouldn’t you know? Well, actually, I’m doing this in hindsight now. We expected the pushback from National Abortion Rights Action League, Planned Parenthood action. We were expecting pushback from all those courts. But you know what we didn’t expect?

We didn’t expect that the in vitro fertilization lobby in Mississippi would spend millions of dollars against Initiative 26. That was the amendment that was on the ballot. Quite frankly, that was the beginning of my education. I mean, I understood what the process was for in vitro fertilization, but I didn’t understand the business of in vitro fertilization, which at that time was completely unregulated, and for the most part is around the country. It’s unregulated. The fact that, oh, well, in order to get the biggest bang for the buck, you get as many eggs as you can, you fertilize as many of them as you can, and you start implanting. Once the couple is done with as many children as they want, then they just discard any that or they donate them to science. All that egregious behavior, essentially, it is the commodification of humans. We are treating these tiny humanlike properties. Quite frankly, especially on… Because one of the big things Dan would talk about back in the 2000s is just all of the egregious research happening at the state and the national level on these children that were created and then experimented on. The fact that right now, the IVF conversation is coming back around, and let’s just say we know a little more about what’s happening.

Again, here’s our incremental advance. We are actually getting the chance to connect with people. It’s like, Oh, well, if you’re going to quote Psalm 139 and say, Oh, well, if God knitted me in my mother’s womb, then if human, if the doctor tries to reproduce the process outside, is it any less human? And if it isn’t, then what does ethical treatment of those humans mean? And did you know what actually happens in those IVF claims? I believe we do have an opportunity. People talk about, well, even when they talk about you bad, when they badmouth you, if it’s on the front page of the big newspaper, you at least have an opportunity. Exactly. To make something of it. Well, that’s what the personhood movement, the personhood alliance, the organization that Dan Becker helped found to be the antithesis to the National Rights of Life organization. We’re taking advantage of the opportunity right now.

Yeah. I think it goes back to, if you don’t look at every area of life and thought, as Dr. Ashtun used to say, through a biblical lens, you’re going to accept things that later, when you find out would horrify you. I don’t know, you said you were a fan of the podcast, but I have had a doctor on who talked about what it’s like with organ donations. Oh, yes. Heidi Klesig is her name. Yes. I Now, a lot of people, when they listened to it, they were like, We had no idea that’s what took place. Now, will that mean anything to someone who doesn’t honor the word of God? Well, maybe, but not at the same way it should mean something to the people of God, because there are plenty of places in scripture where we’re promised if we violate God’s law, we can expect awful things to happen. So when you want to try to figure out why awful things happen, if you believe in climate change, why climate change, if you believe in all sorts of other things, asking the question, why? Well, Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28, not very long, but they’ll tell you why.

They’ll tell you why.

But see, Andrea, that means that the God of the Bible is being taken as who he presents himself as, not the truncated modern that we have. Exactly. That we traffic in. Again, I think this point right here, I think, is illustrative of what I call the big divide in the pro-life movie. A lot of the division you will see in the pro-life movement comes on this point right now, and that is, does the word of God define our morality and ethics? And are we accountable to him in how we exercise our duty before him in this area.

This is a question that I wanted to ask you. There’s a fight within the pro-life movement. If We are going to have this big umbrella called the pro-life movement between those who are saying that we need to do things incrementally, which doesn’t sound too far off from what you were saying, that you have to be patient. But over the subject of whether or not abortion is murder, and would you say that there should be laws on the book that you don’t need a new law that says you shouldn’t murder. Most localities and states have that as that. But to include in that abortion, why are so many pro-life people so adamently against this idea that they actually try to kill bills that would say abortion is murder?

Well, if I tweak the language just a little bit that abortion is homicide. The question before the court then, the exercise of justice is to determine whether or not, basically, what homicide it was, Whether it was an intentional murder, whether there was coercion involved, whatever. Why is that? It gets back to the statement here, what you talked about. The reason why a lot I’ll say even sincere Christian people out there are reticent to deal with the matter as it is. In other words, if you say abortion takes an innocent life, then is it homicide in terms of all the parties that are involved in procuring that abortion? What are the penalties? See, when we don’t We want to acknowledge that the word of God is applicable to every area of life, when we want to basically do our little cutouts, that’s when we run in the problem. The pushback is, for example, what’s going on in the Republican Party right now is that the pushback is, well, we will honor God with our lips, but with our deeds with regard to the exercise of justice to the preborn children, our autonomy comes first. That’s why every state in the Union that Supposedly, and especially those that have strong pro-life laws that prohibit or regulate elective abortion, they all have cutouts such that the woman will never be charged in a homicide for an elective abortion, period.

That, I think, in a very strange way demeans women that says, You know what? Maybe they just can’t help but murder because women can’t have this understanding that what they’re doing is voluntarily ending a life. That’s one thing. But also it plays into the victim mentality that says every woman who gets pregnant and doesn’t want to be pregnant. I mean, that happens within marriages. Sometimes it’s like, Oh, no. Another kid? We weren’t expecting another kid. But why would that justify then killing? You could have that kid and kill one of the kids that already lives with you. Maybe if you don’t even like that kid. Why are we getting rid of it? In other words, it’s saying- When you start asking those inconvenient questions, people don’t want to talk to you. Exactly. I think part and parcel of what we can do, and I think this is that… I mean, George Duny always spoke to families because families are the basic institution. Those homeschooling families need to include geometry and trigonometry if you think you need them. But make sure your children understand the word of God in light of contemporary issues and realize the hate that will be thrown at you if you say things like, Abortion is murder, therefore, those who participate are participating either as the actual murderer, the one who goes in.

I’ve always compared it to the mother is like the person who gets a contract, a hit on her baby, and then pays the abortionist to do it. Then there’s the structure around the abortion to make sure he can keep doing it. When we look at it that way, talk about not making friends.

They’re like, you’re weird. Truth divides in that regard. Here’s another thing. You talked about, since you mentioned Deuteronomy 28, One of the consistent themes throughout the Bible is that the shedding of innocent blood pollutes the land and that there are real-world consequences for allowing that to continue. We talk about crop failures. We talk about, for example, the rise of wickedness within the population of such a land. There is a cycle that begins when the level of injustice gets to the point where we will shed innocent blood and not require at the hand of the one that shed innocent blood. It’s just for me, it’s very clear that that is just a reality in terms of the universe God has created as gravity.

As we take a look at the situation, I think, and you’ve pointed this out with IVF, for example, you have to go deeper. When the exposé came out about abortion clinics, planned parenthood selling the remains of children who were murdered so that medical research can be done. And how many people know that a lot of the additives in foods to make them taste better actually come from cells from aborted children? Now, a lot of people go, Oh, that’s just so disgusting. Don’t even tell me about it. Well, there are some very popular brands. If you just got to have it, and you don’t know why you got to have it, but you know you got to have it, that your taste buds are reacting to something. In a lot of ways, Ricardo, how many people are comfortable with the fact that we become truly a cannibalistic society?

Well, see, no, we are Way to enlighten. We are not nothing like the Aztecs, nothing like any of the societies that Lord Acton talked about in his treatise on Human Sacrifice. We’re nowhere like that. But again, What is the only mirror that will allow us to see ourselves and our culture for what it really is? The only thing is the word of God.

Yes. I think a lot of people, because the propaganda machine has been rolling for a very long time, if you say, for example, whether you’re talking about IVF, or you’re talking about organ donation, or you’re talking about medical research that helps with certain diseases and the research material comes from aborted children, we want to say, But isn’t this a good? We thank God for the children who are produced through IVF. We thank God for the people who get a transplant. But if you don’t know the particulars, should you be thanking God or should we be thanking the tempter who basically provides technology for us to sin cleanly? As opposed to recognize that we’re sinning actually?

Here’s one of the things that organizations like Georgia Right to Life, we have to essentially step into. So what do you tell the Christian parents who son or daughter would not be alive if it wasn’t for the fact that, Oh, they got a donated heart from somebody who said, I wanted to be an organ donor? I mean, pastorally. How do you… I mean, pastorally, how do you do that? And quite frankly, it’s not just a pastor’s job. I think we in the pews need to think long and hard about the consequences of the choices that we made as a culture and how this lands in real lives and to have a bit of compassion for situations like that because you never know.

No, I agree. But I think this is where The foundation of your faith is important because we know that there are things that happen in life that aren’t part of God’s stated will. When Cain killed Abel, he wasn’t going to chapter and verse and saying, I’m doing exactly what I’m supposed to do. No, he wasn’t. He violated God’s law. Some might say, Well, it wasn’t written down yet, but you know what? He violated God’s law. Human beings know when they violated God’s law. Adam and Eve knew it, they immediately hid. So it’s not like, Oh, gee, what if no one ever told them? You know. So there are a lot of things. If a child is conceived in rape, we would never say God prescribes rape. No, that’s not part of his revealed will. However, in his secret will, however you want to phrase it, he has a purpose for that life to be there. So it isn’t so much to slam women who’ve had abortions. They already, I’m pretty sure, if they’ve come to faith, know the heinousness of what they’ve done, but an actual fact, to say, You know what? We don’t need to keep doing this.

This brings judgment. So you tell somebody who’s received a heart or you’ve received whatever else, and say, In God’s plan, this was supposed to happen. However, once you realize what took place, that the person who gave up that heart wasn’t really dead until such time as that heart was removed, are you comfortable with the fact that someone else was killed in order for you to get the heart. Now, if somebody is offended by that, well, let them be offended by that. But you know what? That’s not treating others as you would want to be treated. There you go. And so a lot of Other people will say, Well, they were going to die anyway. Oh, I see. Take somebody who’s 90 years old and you really like their eyes. Well, let’s just pluck them out because I could really use their corneas. We don’t do that, but hopefully we’ll never get to doing that. But you see the slippery slope.

Yes. I think that hard conversation, Andrew, is what we need to have because we live in a culture where essentially we can do stuff like that. We With the technology, the medical technology that we have, we can do those things. If there are no moral and ethical guardrails there, then you can have situations where, oh, well, when you get to be so old, then we can basically just pick you apart and use you in such a way that you will be a good Good to society.

And then it goes on the flip side of evil, what takes place in China, where they have destination transplants. Now, if anybody actually thought it through, you’d say, wait a minute, I’m going to show up in August and I’m going to get a liver transplant or I’m going to get a lung transplant. How do you plan for that unless you are waiting to get rid of people so that you can take their lungs or their heart? Suddenly, it’s a little different, and that insurance companies will pay for it and it’s okay. We’ve got to be ready to give people the harsh realities.

Yes. And again, if I can bring it back to voting, the people that we select as our rulers, they have to have that level of gravity. When we write about the culture over in the People’s Republic of China, if you whitewash those things that are happening in a confessionally atheistic society, then this is what you’ll get. You don’t play footsy with that. This is where the Lordship of Jesus Christ in every area of life helps give us the needed balance we need, whether we’re talking about geopolitical situations or whether we’re talking about what’s happening at the pharmacy in our town or in our city.

A lot of people, Ricardo, have talked about we need parallel economies. People have done this with homeschooling or people have done this with medical care or legal care. All right, so how do we have a parallel political economy?

Well, first of all, it begins with a firm foundation. In other words, by what standard are you going to create such a party? By what standard of ethics will actually rule that party? You have to nail that first. I happen to be a part of a political party, what is now called the Constitution Party, that basically has that as its foundation. But people say, Well, Ricardo, we live in a two-party system. Well, realistically, what that means… Now, most people say that, but they don’t realize what that actually means. What it means is the two major political parties in power retain their power essentially by legislating. It’s such that any competition will find it very, very difficult to actually get into a place where it’s representative of the people. I tell people here in Georgia, because people, they take advantage of the, Oh, well, we got Republicans and we have Democrats. It’s like, Okay, so how many years since after the war between the states, how many years after reconstruction did it take for Georgia to elect a Republican governor? Most people, because they, again, because they can tell you all the presidents, but they can’t tell you the governors of their state.

I think of him in hall, and I was like, It’s 136 years. It took to 2002 before Georgia elected a Republican for governor. That gets back to our multi-generational faithfulness. What this little political party called the Constitution Party, which was started back in 1992, and people say, Well, how many people do you have elected? How many representatives in the What federal legislature do you have? I’m like, Well, zero. However, if you’re going to build for the long term, I just remind them. It’s like, Well, first of all, I’m not trying to elect a president right off the top. I want to elect town supervisors, your local officials who stand upon the foundation of the principles of our platform and the word of God in the exercise of their duty communities in your communities. That is the first and foremost thing. That’s how you build an alternative political movement, a self-consciously Christian political movement that seeks to recover the same covenantal responsibility that our nation’s forefathers had a firm grasp of, and for that matter, the colonial leaders before them had a firm grasp with that.

Instead of doing either/or, it sounds like you’re saying and/and both.

Yes. For example, I’ll give you a good example. We’re talking about electing folks and voting. Well, the Constitution Party here in Georgia does a lot on the issue of the integrity of our election. But I’m not one to say, Well, I won’t work with Democrats. I won’t work with Republicans. I won’t work with the Green Party. I just basically want all the glory for my party. If what you’re doing is you’re working for the Commonwealth of the Citizens in your state, then as long as there’s, and here’s where the principled incrementalism comes in, as long as you work together on an issue and you insist on acting according to the ethics, the ethical framework that I’m bringing to the table, I can work in good faith with a whole bunch of Republicans, primarily some Democrats here in Georgia, in cleaning up Georgia’s election. I do it all day long. Been doing it quite frankly for about 20 years. Right.

Let me say this, that because you’re involved, then you get a chance to talk. When you get a check to talk, they get a chance to listen. They may hear that they’ve never heard before.

Now, see, this is where I think, in particular, it is so critical for pastors and teachers to instruct their people in the whole Council of God with regard to the issue of civil government. In other words, how did John Adams put it? Essentially, the Constitution that our founders of this current Republic have given us, they’ve given us a Constitution that was fit only for, and I quote, a moral and religious people, religious being Christian. It is wholly unfit for the governance of any other. When you help your congregation understand why that is from the word of God, then when I am working with these folks who, especially here in the south, got a lot of nominal Christians, or you got the guy who’s been a guy I work with in the Greek Party of Georgia. Not even close to the kingdom. But it gives me opportunities. As we work together for a particular goal in our conversation, our getting to know one another, we have conversations. We can talk about eternal things.

Right. The admonition is to let your light shine before men so that they’ll see your good works. But it’s not enough to say, Oh, gee, Ricardo, you do such good works. Ricardo then says, Well, let me Let me tell you why I hold this position. Let me tell you why I’m effective, and you’re now right to the basis of your faith. I’m a sinner who was redeemed, and as a result, I’ve been given a new spirit, and it prompts me to do the things that I do. So turn the accolades into glory to God.

God, Amen. And in particular, I don’t love my neighbor because that would be part of the current American civil religion is to be nice. Now, loving your neighbor sometimes, just like loving your children, sometimes you got to tell your neighbor some tough thing, just like you have to correct your children. You have to tell them some tough things. That’s part of what it means to truly love them. Likewise, in civil governance, you have to do the same. On this point right here, because one of the attacks of the enemy is to basically say, Well, you don’t care about, insert group here, whether they’re talking about the homicide of preborn children, then it’s, Oh, well, you don’t care about the mother. You don’t care about the mother. You don’t do anything for the mother. If we’re talking about, let’s just say, welfare rewards, you don’t care for the families that are suffering. This is where, again, a faith that’s actually lived out for all of life begins to be a witness. For example, when most people read about widows in Paul’s teaching, for example, over in first Timothy, talks about honoring widows indeed and caring for them.

But we read really quickly past the point there in first Timothy 5, where He talks about, yes, the law in the church with regard to caring for widows, but right in the middle of it, it says, But if anyone does not provide for his own, especially for those of his household, he He has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. Again, can we have a credible witness as the people of God in talking about issues regarding caring for the poor when we don’t exhibit it within our own families? We don’t exhibit it within our own local churches. If you are not caring for the widows as the apostolic admonition has commanded us, then we have no gravitas. There is no credibility there for us to speak into the brokenness that is in the world through poverty.

Exactly. I’ve always thought when you see widows and orphans, orphans are pretty easy to identify. They don’t have a father. Most people would be considered orphan, even if they have a mother, but not a father. A lot of the women who chose not to kill their children were abandoned by the father of that child. I don’t really know a whole lot about first century Christianity, but I imagine a lot of the widows were not people who just had their husband die, although they were probably that. How about husbands who had abandoned them? How about those who didn’t take care of them or their children who fall into that worse than infidels? We don’t have to go very far. If people within the church recognize that that single mother, regardless of how she became a single mother, is worthy of help and her children are worthy of help, then I think, and this happens in a lot of congregations, so I’m not saying, Ricardo, it doesn’t, but it’s not the emphasis in many.

Right. But again, it’s something that it’s not far off. We’re not talking theoretical stuff here. We are talking about stuff that happens right in our own neighborhood. What is the engine? How is it that we are able to do these things? You see it right there in the scripture. It is through the tithes and offerings of the people of God, it ministered to the needs of, first and foremost, the household of God, and then out into the community. This is one of the things that just opened my mind, quite frankly. Having grown up, lower middle class in central Arkansas, and quite frankly, seeing some of the impacts of poverty. A couple of my best friends growing up were twins who were being cared from their grandmother, and they were Or let’s just say their grandmother did the best they could, but they weren’t destitute, but they had very little to speak of. But they both turned out to be fine men because of the care of their grandmother. But my thing is, is the church stepping into that environment and caring for these families?

They don’t always have to be pretty situations. Anybody who’s ever helped someone in need will know that you can see how they got there oftentimes. It wasn’t just that bad luck happened to them. There were decisions that were made that produced it. But you don’t always get to choose perfect people. And on top of it, if you have a real cognizance of your own salvation, you weren’t a perfect person either.

Oh, come on. Right there. That’s the difference between the hand up people. Let me come over and give you a hand up, versus, well, you know what? If we were dead to sin, but when the grace of God appeared and God spoke life into our hearts, there was nothing in us that gave us life other than the spirit of God in us. See, when we realized that that is our state, our natural state as sons of Adam and daughters of Eve, then it really does change your perspective on the effects of sin in people’s lives and how we help them.

Yes. A couple of things, and our time is running out. I want to point out that rather than retreating, people like Joseph and Daniel, who, quite frankly, didn’t end up in their positions because it was a matter of choice. Joseph was sold into slavery. Daniel was taken into captivity. But their foundation was such that when God opened up the opportunity for them to lead, they led in godly ways.

Yes.

I think that is what we should be focusing on with families and churches. Okay, maybe we don’t like the guy from column A or the girl from column B or anything else down the chain from that. We need to be preparing our young people, not all people, because not everybody’s called that way, but to take their place as statesmen, not politicians, because the Bible has statesmen, it doesn’t have politicians, and be able to be grounded enough that when given an opportunity like the Constitution Party, you know what? The zero that you said who were elected, it doesn’t matter. Brought things to the conversation. I remember back in the early ’90s, Howard Phillips, who was very much associated with this party, would get on the radio and would talk. Of course, they wanted him to talk because he was this new party or whatever. Given the opportunity to talk, you got to be ready to give the reason for the hope that’s within you. I think groups that are actually helping in this regard will make it so that people will have their talking points.

Yes. We are more than happy to do that. If you go to our website, the Constitution Party of Georgia’s website in particular, I make this very clear in the transcript of a message I gave back in 2008, if I remember correctly, where Our success as a political movement depends upon the fact that there are faithful Christian individuals, families, churches in the state who catch this vision that if we are faithful in little things, if we’re faithful in our family life, if we’re faithful in our business, we’re faithful in our local churches, then that provides an opportunity to be faithful in serving our communities. That’s the only thing that is going to give a restoration of the American Republic, in my estimation. Nothing else will restore the American Republic. Anything else that we do is going to essentially give us another American Republic like what we’re dealing with right now. We have a Constitution because we’re no longer a moral and religious people. That Constitution does very little other than to provide guard rails to the steeds and the criminals that are enmeshed, whether they are elected or not. To that end, I definitely want to underscore that your aptitude as you’re homeschooling your children, your aptitude in self-government prepares your children for other roles of service, whether as husbands and wives, whether as members in the local church, whether it be in a community, whether you’re part of a nonprofit or whatever, or you’re running a business.

Your aptitude, your self-government under God’s law, word, prepares you for service. It is a firm and true foundation to provide you a fruitful life of service.

Amen to that. Here’s my last question to you, Ricardo. You didn’t just appear out of a rock. There’s the people who’ve influenced you. They’re the books you’ve read. They’re the circumstances you’ve been involved in. If you were advising young people today who say, This guy’s cool. I like what he’s saying. Who are the people that influenced you? What are the books that influenced you? And what might be or should be on their reading list?

Okay. I got actually energized to actually participate in the political process in terms of the work of elections through an organization called the Texas Grassroots Coalition. Their work was to essentially train Christians in the principles of government, all the kinds of government, and then to essentially go out and serve, whether you wanted to do a Republican or a Democrat or whatever. Required reading to become a member of that organization was Gary DeMars, God in Government. That would be one of the books right there. It is still in print. You can get it from americanvision. Org. The other would be, in particular, for those of you all who, let’s say you’re hearing some of the current discussion about Christians being involved in politics Christian nationalism and all that other stuff. You really either currently or you feel called to get involved in that area, I highly recommend Dr. George Grant’s The Micah Mandate. That book, which was a gift from my dear wife, really set my feet on a solid ground, and it has allowed me to walk, by the grace of God, faithfully in the realm of politics due to the principles that Dr. Grant lays down in that book.

So again, the Micah Mandate, that would be another one. And then last of all, just about anything from the Chalcedon Foundation, I think is most helpful. And again, I would just tell people to just start with law and liberty. If you are looking at the world around you and you are concerned about the loss of our liberty, then getting Rushdoony’s law and liberty helps you understand, well, first of all, what truly is liberty? And what does that look like in the context of civil government and how do you restore it? Those would be three recommendations right off the top of my head. If you all want to get a hold of me, yes, I’m on the social media. I’m on Facebook. I’m on axer. Com, formerly known as Twitter. Those are the two that I frequent most often. Or you can reach out to me at georgia right to life if you want to get involved in pro-life work or you just want to pick my brain on stuff like that. It’s really easy. It’s [e-mail].

Very good. Lastly, For people who can’t tell because this is audio, but if they’ve seen your picture, you are an optimistic man of color who does not feel as though the world owes him anything. So This may sound weird. Do you happen to be a Christian who’s black or a black man who happens to be a Christian?

You know what? I’m going to answer it like this. There was a song that I heard often as a young boy in church, St. Mark Missionary Baptist Church, to be exact. It goes like this, I’m just a nobody trying to tell everybody about somebody who could save anybody. That’s who I am. Yes, if you want to ask me about my ethnicity and all that other stuff, well, yes, because that’s who God created me, that does have something to do with who I am. But it’s not what defines the core of who I am. What defines the core of who I am is that I am a redeemed sinner, saved by grace, alone, through faith alone. Because of the persevering work of the Holy spirit in my life, even in the midst of what’s going on right now, because some people are saying, We’re approaching the end of the American Republic. Well, when my children were much younger, I would tell people, Well, I’m about training my children so that they would be part of the restoration, whether in their lifetime their grandchildren’s lifetime, that they would be part of the restoration. That’s who I am.

That’s why because Jesus is King and he will have the victory, that’s why I’m optimistic, because he is who he says he is.

Thank you again for taking the time, listeners. You can see a lot of his talks on YouTube and Georgia Right to Life. I would just say, you are who God made you to be, and we encourage people to be who God made them to be.

Amen. Be about the work of making disciples, teaching them everything that he has commanded us to do.

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