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A secret field that summons lightning. A massive spiral that disappears into a salt lake. A celestial observatory carved into a volcano. Meet the wild—and sometimes explosive—world of land art, where artists craft masterpieces with dynamite and bulldozers. In our Season 2 premiere, guest Dylan Thuras, cofounder of Atlas Obscura, takes us off road and into the minds of the artists who literally reshaped parts of the Southwest. These works aren’t meant to be easy to reach—or to explain—but they just might change how you see the world. Land art you’ll visit in this episode: - Double Negative and City by Michael Heizer (Garden Valley, Nevada) - Spiral Jetty by Robert Smithson (Great Salt Lake, Utah) - Sun Tunnels by Nancy Holt (Great Basin Desert, Utah) - Lightning Field by Walter De Maria (Catron County, New Mexico) - Roden Crater by James Turrell (Painted Desert, Arizona) Via Podcast is a production of AAA Mountain West Group.…

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Oracle Corporation's Military Affiliated Veteran Employee Network - MAVEN. The MAVEN Podcast shines a spotlight on veteran-affiliated employees, activities, partners, and organizations that are making a difference by contributing to causes greater than themselves. We talk experiences, career readiness, military transition, and the many ways we may all continue the mission to serve.

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#Chris Spencer #Oracle Corporations #Careers #Business #Podcasting Education

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Investment: Josh Johnson, Director of Programs Special Operators Transition Foundation, US Army Veteran 1:06:01

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As his military chapter came to a close, Josh—a retired U.S. Army veteran with nearly 32 years of service, much of it within U.S. Special Operations—turned to the Special Operators Transition Foundation, or SOTF, for guidance in navigating what came next. That experience didn’t just help him find his footing in a new career—it sparked a deeper calling. After spending his first few years out of uniform applying the skills he’d sharpened over decades of service, Josh returned to SOTF—not as a participant this time, but as a leader. Now, he’s committed to helping other transitioning special operators find their way forward, giving back through the very program that helped launch his own next chapter. In this episode, Josh shares real-world insight into the challenges of transition, the importance of self-discovery, and why success beyond the military comes down to one key word: investment. From developing a shared vision with your family, establishing a strong network of connections, to executing that plan with the same tenacity forged in service, Josh offers a grounded, motivating roadmap for anyone standing at the edge of a major life shift. https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuafhijohnson/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/specopstf/ https://sotf.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;41;08 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode, I'm joined by Josh Johnson, director of programs for the Special Operators Transition Foundation. As his military chapter came to a close, Josh, the retired U.S. Army veteran with nearly 32 years of service, much of it within US Special operations, turned to the Special Operators Transition Foundation, or so for guidance and navigating what came next. 00;00;41;08 - 00;01;02;19 Unknown That experience didn't just help him find his footing in a new career. It sparked a deeper calling after spending his first few years out of uniform, applying the skills he'd sharpened over decades of service. Josh returned to Sota not as a participant this time, but as a leader. Now he's committed to helping other transitioning special operators find their way forward, giving back through the very program that helped launched his own next chapter. 00;01;02;20 - 00;01;25;20 Unknown In this episode, Josh shares real world insight into the challenges of transition, the importance of self discovery, and why success beyond the military comes down to one key word investment from developing a shared vision with your family. Establishing a strong network of connections to executing that plan with the same tenacity forged in service. Josh offers a grounded, motivating roadmap for anyone standing at the edge of a major life shift. 00;01;25;20 - 00;01;45;00 Unknown We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family, Josh's contact details in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. 00;01;45;03 - 00;02;07;16 Unknown Good morning Josh. Hey good morning Chris. Good to see you. Good to see you. Thanks for joining me on this early Monday morning. I appreciate it. Anything exciting happening in the next couple of days or how was the weekend? Weekend was good. We're, my wife has a long list of honey do's, and she was out this week, so I took the opportunity to can kind of knock some of those out. 00;02;07;16 - 00;02;28;08 Unknown So I'm repainting kitchen cabinets. So I got to do all the sanding and prepping and start painting that. So, not as relaxing as a typical weekend, but not bad. Not bad. You can do that with your hands. You feel like you accomplished something? Yeah, that's some tedious work, too. That's mean. Got to get it right. Or you can see it right one podcast time, right? 00;02;28;08 - 00;02;46;16 Unknown You get that, you get to listen all your good. Do you pick up on anything? Any good ones? Man, I listened to a couple, Sean Ryan's got, health and wellness doctor, and he's just going through the whole food process and, you know, trying to figure out how to eat, right? And, some good stuff, right? 00;02;46;17 - 00;03;06;23 Unknown He's like, hey, man, if if, if you don't have that ingredient in your in your cabinet right now, don't eat that food. That's a pretty simple thing. So just, you know, full whole foods, whole ingredients. Yeah. Yeah. He's digging, digging into the, the whole saturated fats and oils and all that. And, you know, it's good stuff. Yeah. 00;03;06;24 - 00;03;28;27 Unknown No. It's good. Those little things help. All right. Josh is here to talk about the Special Operators Transition Foundation. And of course, as we typically do, we we lead in with a little bit about our guests. And so, Josh, if you would mind tell us a little bit about you. Yeah. So again I appreciate the opportunity to get on the Maven podcast and have this conversation. 00;03;29;00 - 00;03;49;29 Unknown You know, we've, sort of the Special Operators Transition Foundation and Oracle has, has built a really strong relationship over the last, I don't know, year or so. And it's only getting stronger. And so, you know, pull up through like this to get on and and talk with folks and you know just explain what we do. I'm very appreciative of that, of the opportunity. 00;03;49;29 - 00;04;06;21 Unknown So born and raised in Utah come from a decent sized family. Five of us total spent a lot of time, you know, in sports because, you know, the more practice you have, the less chores you have at the house. So, you know, you spend as much time out of the house as possible and leave it, leave everything else to the little siblings. 00;04;06;21 - 00;04;26;10 Unknown Let them do all that. Join the army early with this lofty goal. As a 17 year old terrible student of becoming a, an FBI agent at the time, I had the opportunity to talk to an FBI agent who was like, hey, we want accountants, lawyers or linguists. And I was like, well, not going to go to law school. 00;04;26;12 - 00;04;49;17 Unknown Math is my worst subject, apparently. I need to go learn it, learn a language. So I joined the Utah Army National Guard, to be a Russian linguist. And when I got down to the Defense Language Institute, Monterey, California, I found out that I do not learn languages very well. So, struggled in that and ended up not passing that which was one of the first times I ever failed anything. 00;04;49;17 - 00;05;09;29 Unknown That was kind of a, a kick in the guts and a reset. Came back, got married, had a baby and was doing like, construction. And then the National Guard and realized that that I probably want to try something else. Law enforcement was still on my mind, but I was too young to go be a police officer in the state of Utah. 00;05;10;02 - 00;05;34;21 Unknown So I joined active duty, became a military policeman, did that for about ten years. And then we were stationed in Belgium. I had gone back to the states, to the Army's protective services, detachment, like bodyguard school. And in my mind, I had this picture that was going to be all of these, like, top performers. Because who why wouldn't you want that? 00;05;34;21 - 00;05;56;02 Unknown You know, guarding all these, you know, important people. And it was it was a little like this, a little disappointed. But there were two Navy Seals in the course. And when we were doing our intros, everyone's like, oh, you know, I'm stationed in Belgium and we're going to be providing security for the, the secure. And, you know, all these everyone's kind of going around where they're going to be assigned. 00;05;56;05 - 00;06;15;07 Unknown And the two Navy Seals and one of them gets up and he goes, we're actually here to learn how to kill guys like you. And I just started laughing. I was like, well, that's a different mentality. But through the program, I mean, it was a great course of great training. We learned a ton. I just wasn't overly impressed with the people I was surrounded with. 00;06;15;07 - 00;06;42;27 Unknown And I kind of got thinking about the people in the, in the organization. And it it dawned on me that I was just ready to be surrounded by, kind of a, I would say high caliber, but at least people that were looking for something more because it can become shift work and all that stuff that comes with being a military policeman, it can become, kind of, hey, let's just get this done and get over it and get through with this. 00;06;42;27 - 00;07;03;17 Unknown And and I get it right. It's long hours, midnight shifts and all that stuff. And so there's not a lot of training that was going on. But I just decided I wanted to try something different. So I came home, took my wife out to dinner. Been gone a month, and she was like, well, how was the trip? 00;07;03;17 - 00;07;22;14 Unknown And I was like, it was good. But, I think I want to go Special Forces. And it was like the record player stopped, the restaurant got suddenly quiet, everyone staring, and she was like, are we going to talk about this? And I said, I feel like that's what we're doing now. And she's like, sounds like you've already made a decision. 00;07;22;14 - 00;07;47;16 Unknown I said, well, I think I have. And so ended up, you know, we talked it through and there were a lot of of misconceptions and, you know, rumors and, and all these different things. And we ended up finding we had a chaplain, who had been a who had been a prior 18 alpha. So Special Forces officer made it to the rank of major. 00;07;47;16 - 00;08;09;18 Unknown And then he decided he wanted to go to chaplaincy and so we had a chance to talk with him. And he was like, here's the deal. Like, as in any other MOS in the military, you're going to have people that make, you know, terrible decisions. He goes, but there's a lot fewer of them. And, you know, all of these rumors that you hear, they're just really not all that true. 00;08;09;18 - 00;08;35;12 Unknown What you're hearing are the bad highlights. It kind of eased some of that concerns that she had. And I just got a fire in my belly and just decided that it was going to happen. So I tried a really hard, which was super interesting because I'm, you know, rushing through these little Belgian towns carrying five gallon water jugs and just whatever people are going to be like, what is crazy American doing? 00;08;35;15 - 00;09;01;26 Unknown But I went to selection and I did well. And man, what, what an ordeal. The, if anyone ever know if anyone's ever heard anything about, Special Forces assessment selection, it's a three week process. Week one is all like individual assessment, swim test, PT test, psychological eval. Some run, some rocks, a little bit of classes on land navigation, to just get everyone to kind of a baseline. 00;09;01;28 - 00;09;25;27 Unknown And then week two is all individual assessment. So primarily based around land navigation skills. So I mean you're walking you kind of start out small or you're doing like 4 or 5 mile day and night iterations and then it pluses up and then you culminate with like a 25 mile night in day assessment. And that's a hard pass. 00;09;25;27 - 00;09;53;13 Unknown If you don't pass out, you're out. And then you go into team week and team week is it's a unique experience because they give you all of these crazy tasks and you have to, you know, immediately build rapport with the people you're working with. Establish a plan, enact that plan. And it's things like, here's an old Army Jeep with three tires, and year four, you know, 12ft poles and some lashing rope. 00;09;53;14 - 00;10;17;12 Unknown Move this thing eight miles down the road, or, one that they referred to as the fat bastard or the down pile up. It was a, an Army duffel bag. The old school army duffel bag filled with 300 pounds of dirt. And then you got these, four lashings, you know, poles, and you make a litter out of it, and you carry that thing, and it felt like 100 miles, I'm sure was only like 5 or 6. 00;10;17;15 - 00;10;41;00 Unknown But you just do it. All of these different tests, day and night iterations of all these different tests, and they're looking at, you know, what your leadership ability is, what what you're going to be like as a as a team member, do you have the ability to dig in when things get tough? And so at the end of that, if you pass all of those gates, that's just the entrance exam to go to the the Q course. 00;10;41;02 - 00;11;02;28 Unknown So I was in Belgium at the time, so I had to go back. And the army rule was you have to complete two thirds of an overseas tour before you could return. So at about eight months left. So we just, you know, kept trying to get better and better shape, brush up on some skills that I didn't didn't have, got it to a bunch of infantry manuals or Ranger handbook and things, you know, things you don't necessarily do as an MP and then showed back up. 00;11;02;28 - 00;11;27;21 Unknown But I got selected to be an SF medic, which was an incredible, I always had kind of an interest in medicine, first aid and whatnot. So you go back, you do, what they call phase one, which is like, it's small unit tactics. So kind of like a mini ranger school. It's about 45 days long, multiple patrols that you're testing day and night and, and you've got, you know, three different positions. 00;11;27;21 - 00;11;55;18 Unknown So you got to you got to you got to get tested out and go through and finish that went into the to the SF medic course. In the medic course is one of the most insane, intense, incredible courses that the military has to offer. So it's a year long process that takes you from a basic medical get yourself, or yourself, your, paramedic license. 00;11;55;18 - 00;12;18;25 Unknown So you go and do some rotations at, at a hospital, and then you do some rotations on an ambulance crew. So you're seeing, you know, emergencies, and then you go into the trauma side and they've got these just incredibly well laid out scenarios with, you know, mannequins that give biofeedback and just all these things. And every day is just kind of a test. 00;12;18;25 - 00;12;44;04 Unknown Just a test and, work your way through that, and then you end up going into advanced medicine where you're learning surgery and dental and laboratory work and you name it. At the end of this, you're allowed to be what, what the Navy refers to as a, an independent duty corpsman. So you can be the sole medical provider, for American and, local forces. 00;12;44;06 - 00;13;12;22 Unknown And I'm telling you, SF medics come out of there with skills. I mean, far above, at least on the tactical, the hands on emergency trauma stuff. It's pretty funny. We go through these hospital rotations. We do two of them during that course, and the SF medics will get in there, and they're faster than doctors. On some of these things, like sinking a chest tube, somebody's got, you know, taking a wound to the chest and there, that cavities filling up with blood pressure. 00;13;12;24 - 00;13;37;10 Unknown And, you know, guys are sinking these chest tubes because they've done 30 or 40 of them, whereas the average doctors read about one, saw PowerPoint on it, had somebody kind of walk them through it. And so you get you get done with that and you feel like you are just super well trained. And it was kind of the first time I ever walked out of an Army school feeling like, man, I know something I like. 00;13;37;10 - 00;14;19;16 Unknown I legitimately know how to do something. Then you go back, you do the big culminating exercise. It's called the Robin Savage exercise. And it's a simulated unconventional warfare exercise. It's about 45 days long. You get your mission, you go through planning, you do this big long, you know, infill helicopters and rocking and linking up with Partizans and, you know, moving into a guerrilla base with these, you know, guerrilla fighters that are taking on this big, long government and the scenarios that the, that the instructors come up with and the local population that's been doing this for the 50, 60 years that SF has been in existence. 00;14;19;18 - 00;14;40;01 Unknown I mean, we got we got tested to take out a, train bridge one time, and I was like, okay, this will be kind of cool. Sneak out in the middle of the night. You're replacing, you know, you know, simulated explosives and whatnot. And we were on the tarmac and, you know, hey, the train is going to come by at this time. 00;14;40;03 - 00;14;55;11 Unknown And sure enough, a train went by and I was like, are you kidding me? You guys got a train to do this because it went over the bridge. It stopped, came out, they did an evaluation, and then the train went back and I was like, you, you legitimately got somebody to drive a train in the middle of the night to for this exercise. 00;14;55;11 - 00;15;21;27 Unknown So super cool, train to come out of that go to language school, which, as we already know, I'm not super strong on learning languages. It I was able to to learn enough Indonesian to pass the test and move on to first Special Forces Group. First group. So you've got five active duty S.F. groups, and they're all kind of regionally aligned for a special forces group that has a primary responsibility for what they call Indo pick. 00;15;22;02 - 00;15;42;28 Unknown So Asia. So I got to do a lot of work in the Philippines and Thailand and, India and Bangladesh and just really get to understand that that area and then, you know, all the big wars kicked off. And so we're doing rotations in between, you know, our AOR and then go into Iraq and go into Afghanistan. 00;15;42;28 - 00;16;09;18 Unknown And so you get just a really good understanding of the capabilities of special operations. I got back got to become a an SF team star. And and typically that's an E8 position and it's about a two year assignment. But I when I first got there, SF, I got assigned to a dive team. So underwater operations team, and there was only one per battalion at the time. 00;16;09;18 - 00;16;40;12 Unknown And then they decided they wanted to grow the capability. Well, at that point, I was a diver, a dive supe, and a dive medical technician, and they were like, hey, we want we want you to to go stand up another dive team, grow that capability, within the battalion. So as a non promotable E-7, I got picked up to go do that ends up I got I, I ended up with almost four and a half years as a team sergeant, which is, you know, twice as long as the average person gets. 00;16;40;15 - 00;17;09;24 Unknown It was awesome. Just incredible. Some of the best soldiers have ever worked with doing some, some really cool missions, building the capability and growing the team from the ground up was was pretty fun. As I left that, I, I got the opportunity to go do a, a two year, the kind of impact the military exchange or military military professional exchange, opportunity program or other. 00;17;09;27 - 00;17;39;10 Unknown So I was the sole U.S. guy with the Australian CSR. So Australia's tier one unit got to to run a gun with those guys for two years. And one of the just I mean, I'm living in Perth, Australia. I'm one kilometer away from probably the most beautiful beach in the planet, running with with with guys that are just super motivated and very well trained and just thoroughly enjoyed that. 00;17;39;12 - 00;18;07;26 Unknown When I came back, I was a senior eight, getting ready to get looked at for, E9, but I kind of decided that I was it was time, right? I was a 20 years at that point, and they assigned me to a company that one of my really good friends was, he was a company SA major, and he was like, hey, I want you to be my operations are and I want you to, you know, get us ready to, to to do a combat rotation over Afghanistan. 00;18;07;26 - 00;18;36;02 Unknown And I said, well, yeah, I'm, I'm cool, but I think I'm, I think I'm going to get out. And so guy's name is Danny Roscoe and he's famous for, for saying that he's only got a, you know, a 12th grade, California public school education, but he's got a master's in trigonometry. He essentially tricked me into staying in for the rotation and then during the rotation, he said, hey, I want you to go be the battalion. 00;18;36;05 - 00;19;05;10 Unknown You know, first sergeant and then ended up making certain major. And so you know, came back, took over that exact same company as a company. SA major took him back to Afghanistan and then came back. And then I ended up closing out my, my time, what we call the advanced skills company. So managing all the training for parachuting, diving, shooting, some of the Intel courses, the jacks, they're called. 00;19;05;10 - 00;19;27;22 Unknown So tax and NSF. Just a great way to to close out, a career. And so I ended up doing just under 32 years, after I told that guy I was going to get out at 23 and stuff. But it was good. It was it was an incredible experience. So I retired in July, kind of at the beginning of the whole Covid scare. 00;19;27;22 - 00;19;47;20 Unknown And there was a bunch of, of issues with trying to get my, you know, VA claims process, because the morning I was supposed to go in and meet with my VSO, there was an 8:00 and an 830 appointment. I had the 830 appointment at 815. The world shut down because of Covid, and they're trying to figure out what I was going to do. 00;19;47;20 - 00;20;05;14 Unknown And the Army at my unit essentially said, hey, go figure out how to be a civilian. You're going to retire. We're going to give you the time to go do that. And so, you know, you're working on, you know, what that was going to look like. And I think, like most of us, when the time comes, we're ill prepared for it. 00;20;05;17 - 00;20;24;24 Unknown And I remember sitting down thinking, okay, well, let let's figure out this process. And I just stared at a wall trying to to, you know, whiteboard, trying to figure out what I was going to do and realize I didn't know. I didn't know how to become a civilian. And about that time I'd heard of this organization, at the time, it was called Your Grateful Nation. 00;20;24;27 - 00;20;48;06 Unknown And it was, SOF specific, Veterans Transition organization. So I called and interviewed for it, and and it was a rough interview. I was I was surprised at, you know, how detailed they wanted and, you know, the information kind of really digging into, make sure that I was going to be the the right guy because their reputation was based on. 00;20;48;06 - 00;21;17;20 Unknown Hey, we're bringing in the right people, putting them in front of the right organizations. But I was I was selected for it, went through that program, ended up getting picked up for a role with a company called West Shore Home. And they're a home improvement company based out of, Carlisle. Well, Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. So left Washington State, where we were where we were stationed, moved out to Pennsylvania, and I was hired as the director of training and leadership development. 00;21;17;22 - 00;21;35;25 Unknown So if there is if there is a, a way to take an Army sergeant major and put him into a civilian organization, that's the place, right? So they didn't have one at the time? It was a brand new concept that they were trying to develop. And they said, hey, you know, you've got experience building a team from the ground up. 00;21;35;28 - 00;22;01;06 Unknown You've got all this experience and training and, and, you know, development, go figure this program out. So I ended up working for them for about two and a half years. It was great. Built this program from the ground up. Just learned an absolute ton about that specific industry. And then just civilian organizations in general ended up getting poached to go work doing leadership development consulting. 00;22;01;09 - 00;22;25;18 Unknown And that was fun. I got to meet just, I don't know, 20 or 30 different organizations, everything from police departments to cruise ship line up, an Alaskan trucking company up in Minnesota, just all these different organizations. And so I got to learn a bunch about a ton of different industries, through this process. But the entire time I had been very active as a mentor for a while. 00;22;25;20 - 00;22;46;18 Unknown And that then while I was in the program, became the Special Operators Transition Foundation. So they did a name change to to better align what they do. Just to make it a lot simpler, it was an advertising, decision. But the line, you know, the the name of the organization changed to align with the actual mission of the organization. 00;22;46;23 - 00;23;02;27 Unknown And I'd been very active, you know, helping new guys come into the program and trying to figure out what they wanted to do. And now suddenly I had all of this experience from, you know, being out of the military and working in these different roles. And they asked me if I wanted to come on, and become the director of programs. 00;23;02;29 - 00;23;22;26 Unknown And so and in January of 2023, I started in the role that I'm in, I'm, now, so, it's great. So now I run the process that all of the fellows coming through the Special Operators Transition Foundation go through. I get to do their initial intake call. I get to kind of figure out what what it is. 00;23;22;26 - 00;23;44;15 Unknown And they're they're looking for and what they want to do. And then we run them through this process. And that is the longest 32nd intro I've ever given. It's it's necessary. Yeah, I assure you then it was good because there's a lot of things impact impact inside of that that and I've been taking notes as you've been speaking and sharing. 00;23;44;15 - 00;24;09;15 Unknown So thanks for thanks for sharing the detail. Because it it does it might feel like it is lengthy, but it tells the story of the things exactly what we're talking about. You know, I mean, the one thing the most immediate, the closest thing to the end of, of what you shared is, you know, the choices that you're making and how it shifts in the master and in trigonometry. 00;24;09;18 - 00;24;28;05 Unknown I had to think twice about the because that's exactly what occurs. I think, you know, the top three things that occur when, when the longer you're in and the closer you are to a goal. In this case, let's say retirement at 20, there's a lot of contemplation goes on. It's probably preset as a baseline of what you expect to do right. 00;24;28;05 - 00;24;53;03 Unknown At 20 I'm going to get out, you know, not 21, not 1920, not 23 unless things happen. And so certain things and it seems in your experience, something happened to where it the options that were weighed brought more value than, than what you were considering. I mean, it's no joke. It was what, 13 years after that expectation. So it's not like it was hasty. 00;24;53;05 - 00;25;14;03 Unknown It may have felt that way, but it does. It does play a part in how challenging it can be when somebody's contemplating, how do I go from where I've been for so long to something new and what influences me to get away from that? Is somebody going to validate how I'm feeling and then pull me away from what I've been doing, or somebody's going to give me a reason to continue on? 00;25;14;06 - 00;25;37;28 Unknown Yeah. And and I really love that part because it does express some of the things that I think we should dive into is, you know, how how we're making decisions and what are the influences from a personal level, because even early on, you coming back from training, I'm sure your wife wasn't expecting at dinner for you to share that you wanted to go last. 00;25;38;01 - 00;26;02;26 Unknown Yeah. Versus go right or go straight or whatever it is you can compare it to. So let's start with that a little bit. Discussing with family how important is it in anything that we're doing. So I had this conversation with our fellows a lot. Most things in the Army you don't have much of a choice out, right? You maybe get to re-enlist and say, hey, you know, I want to go to this. 00;26;02;28 - 00;26;22;12 Unknown You know, I want to go to Europe. I want to you know, go to a specific unit or whatnot. But typically speaking, you march in order, you act on those orders. And so there's not a lot of choice that happens, but there are those kind of pivotal moments of all I do. I stay in the CMOs. 00;26;22;14 - 00;26;42;09 Unknown Am I going to go to 20, you know, you know, it's kind of that ten year mark that I think most veterans kind of look at. It really kind of. The three decision points are after your first enlistment at the ten year mark and then at the 20 year mark, and those are the times that you really need to have those conversations, with the family and say, hey, where are we at? 00;26;42;13 - 00;27;01;16 Unknown Right. Is this going to be a good decision for the kids? Is it going to be is this the right decision for what we're going to do? Is this right for me and my career? You know, I had that opportunity to go to Australia, but I had actually had that opportunity a few years before that to go compete for that, for that slot. 00;27;01;19 - 00;27;20;07 Unknown And we sat down with a, with a big family decision. And my daughter was just starting kind of her high school years, and she was super involved in a bunch of sports and, a bunch of academic stuff. And she was doing really well. And, we had to make that decision. Is this the right time for the family? 00;27;20;09 - 00;27;41;22 Unknown I do remember my son advocating for us to go, and we're sitting at the table and he goes, I just want to put this out there. If we go to Australia, I'm the one with the accent. I just laugh and my wife goes, well, it kind of seals the deal for me or that girl. But but perfect. So you know, and that was tough, right? 00;27;41;22 - 00;28;11;16 Unknown That, that was, that was a unique opportunity to take the family and and and and take them overseas. And we just made that decision as a family that it just was not right. The it wasn't the right call. And ultimately it, it, it it it worked out. You know, I got the opportunity to do it later. There's a really cool process in the Army that, if you were kids are in college and you are overseas, the Army will put them on TDY once a year and bring them out for a spring break. 00;28;11;16 - 00;28;30;08 Unknown So you got to bring both kids out to Australia, and they got to experience it. And so we didn't we didn't really lose out on anything in the end. But at the same time, it it wouldn't have it wouldn't have had the same opportunities for my daughter and my son. If we would have uprooted them in the middle of, of high school. 00;28;30;08 - 00;28;45;14 Unknown And that's a big one. Can I hear that from from guys all the time, fellows, I should say, coming through the program. Hey, you know, where is it that you want to live in, like, well, you know, I've got kids in high school, and I just don't think it's the right thing to to to uproot them in the middle of it. 00;28;45;16 - 00;29;09;07 Unknown It's a valid decision on the enlisted side, I think especially with special operations, you got a little bit more control of of your assignments and you can kind of if you plan it the right way, you can you can set yourself up in a position that's going to do that for the officers. What you once you leave company command, it's a two year rotation. 00;29;09;09 - 00;29;30;21 Unknown You just go on staff position, the staff position, the staff position. And that's that's disruptive for the family, particularly in those teenage years. And so I get a lot of the fellows that when I say, hey, what's driving this decision to get out? And they're like, it's it's family. Right. It's it's been around the kids being being an active part of my family. 00;29;30;24 - 00;29;57;10 Unknown And I get that. We were reflecting on this a while back. There was a three year period back when I was back on the SF team, three years in a row. I was home less than 80 days per year, and we figured it out. The longest I was home, the longest I spent the same or the longest I spent in my bed, was 21 days in three years. 00;29;57;12 - 00;30;23;26 Unknown And then that. That's rough, right? You got deployments, you got training cycles, you got red cycle task, and you got all these different things that you have to do. And the whole time your, your, your spouse is essentially a single parent and your kids are living without either mom or dad. And so when you get the opportunity to involve your family, I think it's one of the most important things that you can do, because it's not just you. 00;30;23;29 - 00;30;43;18 Unknown I mean, if you're single guy, single guy or gal and live, you live your life, take whatever assignment you know you can get. But if there's a family involved, there's a lot more decisions that have to be made. And one of the things that I talk about with the fellows, you know, we'll get people like, hey, my kids are in high school, but I ended up getting this job, you know, two states away. 00;30;43;18 - 00;31;06;20 Unknown And so, you know, it's a great job. It pays a lot. It's doing what I want to do. I'm so used to being gone from the family. You know, we're used to it, and I. What I tell them is, every other time you've been away from your family, it has been an army decision or a military decision to take you there. 00;31;06;22 - 00;31;27;15 Unknown You are now choosing to be away from your family, and you're going to do it. And so is your family. And I really want you to ponder that. And I got to be honest, eight out of ten come back and say, yeah, we had a talk and there's just not the right choice. We're going to find something different. 00;31;27;18 - 00;31;50;09 Unknown And I think that is I think that is the right call. Now for some families it works. But I've just seen it. I've seen it go bad too many times in the military. I've seen it go bad too many times from this position that if your family isn't at least an equal part of that equation, it's it's probably not the right decision. 00;31;50;11 - 00;32;12;02 Unknown Strong point. Because even if it were not the military, if you think about what separation brings and distance brings in any movie you watch, there's a there's a hardship that occurs and then there's an evolution of thought. I would imagine everybody's going through it, whether they acknowledge it or not, or understand it to be what it is. The distance creates. 00;32;12;02 - 00;32;44;07 Unknown Now, the opportunity for individual growth versus with your partner or the family and your perspective starts to shift. And so if it becomes a norm, like a habit being developed, you start to understand what independence really feels like. And you do things on your own and it draws you further away. And I think that's the oversimplifying it. I think that that includes some of the complications to where trusting in advocacy, trusting in opinions, trusting in validation. 00;32;44;10 - 00;33;03;14 Unknown And we always say, you have a buddy. What better one to have than your family to be able to talk about the things that you're going to decide in the planning phase? Because what you described, I was just imagining the similarities. Since we're talking about transition, the similarities of what we already recognize, what you're used to is planning. 00;33;03;14 - 00;33;28;20 Unknown We're planning for an an active or an event. And what do you do? You go find some opinions, you know, what are we going to do? How are we going to do it. And you start to develop the the contingencies around those things. So what because of where you are and your experience is the role that you're holding and some of the the advice and things that you share with others to consider. 00;33;28;22 - 00;34;06;11 Unknown What's the emphasis on planning and the similarities between what they've been doing as a service member and what is necessary to plan for? Typically, it's just an event, you know, we can call it deployment, another, choice that they're going to have to make because they're going to go do something different. What's the emphasis on planning? I think it's the the single biggest, emphasis, is planning out what that future needs to look like, you know, veterans who, who don't do a plan, who don't do the research, who don't figure out what it what they want to do, what value they're going to find in that role. 00;34;06;11 - 00;34;29;11 Unknown And they just take a first job because they need one. We know the stats on that, right? The average veteran goes for 2 or 3 jobs in 2 or 3 years because they just can't sort that out. And so our whole thought process is, hey, we're going to take your last year in the military and we're going to help you figure out exactly what that plan needs to look like. 00;34;29;11 - 00;35;06;18 Unknown And we we focus on three main areas. Where do you want to live functionally, what do you want to do and then what industry ultimately organization do you want to do. That functional area. And if you start that way and work your way down it it tends to work out and those things go hand in hand. Right? So if you tell me, hey, my sole desire and life is to be a rocket scientist, but all of my family living in Sandpoint, Idaho, hey, man, nobody's building rockets in Sandpoint, so we either need to figure out how we're going to make you the very first fully remote rocket scientist. 00;35;06;20 - 00;35;27;08 Unknown Or we need to figure out functionally a different area that you need to go down. So what is the priority and what is what is your your your main planning factor? And if it's to be in a geographic location, great. Then let's figure out functionally what do you want to do that is available in that area, what industries are available in that area, and then put a plan in place to achieve it. 00;35;27;11 - 00;36;03;23 Unknown And so starting a year out and going through a whole process of of figuring out who you are, what motivates you, what strengths you have, what experiences you're going to bring to a role, what what is going to, you know, be a passion project for you and then refining that down tends to work out our stats are quite a bit stronger than that then that we what we're seeing is that most of our fellows stay in that role for two years and then promote either within the organization or promote within that functional area out. 00;36;03;26 - 00;36;25;26 Unknown So they're making they're making a, choice to leave that specific role because of growth and not because this I don't like this culture. I don't like this company. I don't like what I'm doing. But it's because they have we have developed a plan and then enacted that plan over a years long period to make sure that it's the right choices like that. 00;36;25;28 - 00;36;59;23 Unknown And and you brought it up. Excuse me. So where do you want to live? The function that you want, and then the organization and the people you want to surround yourself with. That's how tough is that? To get them to understand what that looks like. If all they've known, or at least in the most recent. I mean, you talked about a year taking their year and then kind of using that as the, the catalyst for, for these things to understand who I work with is important, where work is important, what steps do you take to help them understand to be able to get that? 00;36;59;25 - 00;37;20;01 Unknown That's a great question. You know, we talk about the importance of networking, and we kind of reevaluated this over the last year or so. And, you know, we tell people your network is going and is going to get you your job, right. Something like 85% of all professional jobs, I'm sorry, 95% of all professional jobs happen because of networking. 00;37;20;03 - 00;37;42;19 Unknown So blanket online applications or resume submissions result in like, you know, a 5% chance of your first interview and then it goes downhill from there. And if you talk to people that that's all they're doing, they'll say, oh, I've submitted 100 applications. I've only got, you know, 3 or 5 interviews. Well, yeah, because it doesn't really work that way no matter what. 00;37;42;19 - 00;38;07;07 Unknown Glassdoor and indeed and, and LinkedIn tells you most professional jobs happen because of networking. So but what is networking. Right. And when you just tell somebody, hey go networking like oh okay. What does that mean. Well networking is we start out with, hey, talk to your friends that have gotten out. Do they like their jobs? How do their skills translate? 00;38;07;07 - 00;38;27;27 Unknown Do you know, is it is there you know, how is that organization? How does it feel culturally and it's cast a wide net. Talk to anyone and everyone just to figure out what is what is out there. I think I the Army has 207 roles and then you, you know, multiply it by that by the number of ranks within that role. 00;38;28;04 - 00;38;49;07 Unknown But 200 and 207 jobs. That's not a lot. There are thousands of jobs. It can be very broad or can be very narrow. And so figuring out what that means, we do a whole series of of webinars and just intro to the industry where I get people to come in and we talk to everything from project management and construction, project management in the defense space. 00;38;49;09 - 00;39;12;08 Unknown We've got a guy that does risk mitigation or risk management in commercial insurance. He's like, I was surprised at how well prepared I was for this role because I've done risk assessments my entire career. Right. And so now I'm just doing the same thing. I'm looking at an operation by a company or by, you know, insure a company. 00;39;12;10 - 00;39;32;00 Unknown So I start evaluating what those risks are. I've got a matrix that I put them up against and then I make a decision as to whether or not it is worthwhile for, you know, this company to insure that company. And so, it's pretty interesting almost, almost everyone that applies for the program going to say, what is what do you think you want to do? 00;39;32;03 - 00;39;55;03 Unknown And they all say the same two things consulting because that's what special operators do. You go to a foreign country, you consult with foreign military or project management because that's the easiest thing to translate. Hey, I was an astronaut was the first of those opportunities aren't everything's project management, but the number of people that actually go into consulting project management is, is way lower than the near 100% that tell me that's what they want to do. 00;39;55;06 - 00;40;16;17 Unknown But it's because we we really introduce them to multiple opportunities and industries, right? Figuring out functionally what you want to do and then figuring out the industry. And so, hey, talk to as many people as you can, have their skills translate. Do they like the job? Do they like the role? And then as you narrow down then you want to open it up. 00;40;16;17 - 00;40;38;03 Unknown So let's take Oracle for example, somebody says, hey, I think I want to get into business. You know, software sales and Oracle seems like a really good company. All right. Well, how many people at Oracle have you spoke with? I haven't okay. How do you know anything about Oracle? Like. Well, you know, I got on their website, they've got cool pictures and they, you know, they're showing all these things. 00;40;38;04 - 00;40;56;29 Unknown I'm like, yeah, but have you talked to anyone at Oracle like no I'm like, all right well let's do this. And so I'll jump into my database and find, you know, the 7 or 8 folks that we have had hired by Oracle or we'll get on LinkedIn and I'll say, all right, you know, here's how LinkedIn, this is how you use LinkedIn, right? 00;40;57;01 - 00;41;18;18 Unknown Go to an organization, you go to the people, you find the people that are veterans, and then you start reaching out saying, hey, you know, I'm a I'm a transition service member. I've been doing this, I'm super interested in Oracle. Can I get 15 minutes of your time? And I'm always surprised at the number of people who don't say yes because it's really low, which is awesome because I think veterans just want to help veterans. 00;41;18;21 - 00;41;41;22 Unknown And so now you get somebody that knows what you've gone through, right? They know what you're currently doing and they're willing to to give that time and, and be very honest about, you know, the questions you're going to ask. Okay. What is what is, work life balance? What is the culture there? You know? And so now you build up, your information about organization. 00;41;41;24 - 00;42;01;22 Unknown And then just based off of that, now you can start narrowing that network into something you want to do. I tell fellows all the time to the last two questions you should ask in any networking opportunities. Hey, who else should I be talking to? And will you connect me? Right. Because I don't I don't know who I should talk to an oracle, right. 00;42;01;22 - 00;42;18;09 Unknown I just know Oracle is a great company. They these roles seem to align with what I want to do. People seem to be happy they're I'm talking to somebody at logistics or I'm talking to somebody at marketing. But really I want to get into business development. So who do I talk to? Oh, I've got a really good buddy over there, or. 00;42;18;09 - 00;42;35;14 Unknown Hey, I'm part of this Maven organization. Let me connect you with them. And that both. Now you've got, you know, this whole audience of folks that are that are willing to to help you narrow that down. And the introduction, I think is super important. Right? Because if you know, you call me and you say, hey, what is life like over at soda? 00;42;35;14 - 00;42;49;12 Unknown If I'm like, oh, that's the greatest thing ever. And you and I get talking, I'm like, Ben, this is somebody I think it would be cool to work with. I can't bring them on my team. But man, I'd love to have been building and. And then you hit me up with, who else should I be talking to? I'm like, well, what do you want to do? 00;42;49;13 - 00;43;05;28 Unknown You're like, man, I'm all about raising money for a nonprofit. Okay, let me make a phone call. Right. So now I call and say, hey, I've been talking to Chris Spencer. This dude is awesome. I would love to have him on my team. I still have space. But, you know, what he really wants to do is what you're doing. 00;43;06;00 - 00;43;27;24 Unknown So now somebody that that that trust you that and you've said, hey, I've done an evaluation. I think this guy would be perfect. He's like, what? Yeah, of course I want to talk to him. So now you're a vetted, asset that can be brought in. And so, man, those those two questions are so important. Who else should I be talking to? 00;43;27;24 - 00;43;43;25 Unknown And will you connect me? Right. And networking is like mining, right? You dig down, you find a little bit of where you find a vein, you're going to run down that vein, hope and find the motherload. If it doesn't pan out, you come back up to where you know you've got something and you start work in the next space. 00;43;43;27 - 00;44;06;12 Unknown And so the more points of contact you have into an organization, the better you're going to be able to evaluate. And the more you have in common with the people you're talking to, the more they're going to be able to answer questions that make sense to you from where you're at. And that's what I love about networking is especially in the veteran communities, you can get some real honest answers. 00;44;06;15 - 00;44;19;12 Unknown I've had I've had people that I've talked to him like, well, what do you what do you think about your job? He goes, this is the worst place I've ever worked in my life. Like, what are you doing there? It's like, you know, I signed up for the blood money I've got, you know, another year so I can keep my bonus. 00;44;19;12 - 00;44;41;14 Unknown And then as soon as that happens, dude, I'm out of here. I'm like, what would you recommend for anyone else? No, I would not. This is miserable. I'm like, okay, so if I get somebody that's interested in talking to, you know, are you willing to have their conversation 100% right? And that's one point of data, which is why you have to have a network of people, because you could just have somebody that's angry and bitter, you know, having a bad day. 00;44;41;17 - 00;44;55;27 Unknown But if you talk to 4 or 5 people and you're like, hey, this place sucks, man. They just burn through us. We're cogs in the wheel. And as soon as we wear out, they just replace us like it's no fun. Or you talk to people who are like, I love this place. I show up to work every day. 00;44;55;27 - 00;45;23;02 Unknown My boss is super cool. I've got a gym that I can go to. You know, the people are dedicated, they're willing to help, and then you get 4 or 5 people that are telling you the same thing. Well, now you understand the culture of that organization. And so networking is is so impactful in finding, you know, hey, what is it that I want to do functionally and then what organization do I want to do it. 00;45;23;02 - 00;45;44;16 Unknown And, and just having as many conversations as possible. Yes, there's truth in that statement. Josh and I are talking as a result of networking. So one of our friends, because Doug is a friend, but he's also a military parent, happens to live in the area. I met up through somebody else, through another function inside the branch of service. 00;45;44;16 - 00;46;06;29 Unknown They, you know, Doug gets introduced to the organization. And then we had an event and he met you. Introduce me to you. Now we're here talking. And the trust that comes as a result of that because you nailed it to trust. I think that's the that's you have to establish the concrete evidence that you can trust somebody to be able to do these things. 00;46;06;29 - 00;46;28;27 Unknown Because advocacy right now, you'd love to help everybody, but not everybody is ready for help because of what they what they currently believe and what they're ready to hear and those types of things we talk the candor that veterans have. Absolutely. Getting feedback from a veteran is going to help you regardless of how you feel about it, because it's going to tell you the hard truth or it's going to tell you something else. 00;46;28;27 - 00;46;54;09 Unknown Right. And it's it's necessary somewhat of a ramble, the going going back to the two years things. If we can touch on this real quick, the expectation setting because there's, there's some some caveats to the, to the growth that occurs. And then, and then the, the timeline. And this just happens to, you know, it's not really arbitrary, but two years and that's somewhat related to service to where you're going to transition, you're going to pieces, you're going to get promoted. 00;46;54;12 - 00;47;13;12 Unknown There's a timeline that correlates to that to where now it's it's conditions yourself to believe that that equates to success, because there's some other things that hardships that we we all are familiar with, the suffering of being into a role in civilian life and the public and the private sector where we say, oh, it sucks. I don't want to be here. 00;47;13;15 - 00;47;35;25 Unknown Well, you're still learning something. And so what I've done is kind of revealed this, this notion that if it's uncomfortable, I don't need to stay. And I've been lately just more. So it's like, well, if you think about what you're learning, if you're within five years of transition, you're actually understanding what it is like out here now with that environment. 00;47;35;25 - 00;47;55;21 Unknown And of course, you don't need to stay, but it is giving you something to wear. Now you can recognize how to navigate that because now you're you're collecting what you you had mentioned. It's one data point, your experience with one leader because you also mentioned somebody in your story. There's going to be bad decisions. The chaplain had told you they're still going to make bad decisions. 00;47;55;21 - 00;48;14;26 Unknown There's fewer of them. And I think the one thing that we can all remember is when you're when you are where you end up, just maybe pull yourself out of that sometimes spontaneous reaction to what what you're experiencing to realize you're going to get something from it and you're going to become better for it, you know, because now you're learning it. 00;48;14;28 - 00;48;34;17 Unknown So maybe stick around and see what changes, because the other part is you don't know what other people are going through. And if you can remember the influence that you have, you can maybe change and help that person or that team become better. And maybe that's your purpose because we don't know that. Yeah, you know that. That's such a good point. 00;48;34;20 - 00;48;57;21 Unknown You know, on average, you know, veteran, you know, particularly somebody getting ready to retire, they're going to move into a role with less authority and responsibility than the one that they had, right. Brigade commander or squadron commander, you know, what are they saying? And you're going to take a step back. And there's a good chance that that person who is your boss doesn't have the experience that you have in that role. 00;48;57;24 - 00;49;20;02 Unknown And there is nothing wrong with leading from from where you stand right leading up that chain of command. And if if you've got a boss of struggling somebody and you've got to experience that, that you can help them out, why would you not? Right? I mean, selfishly, your, your you're making your environment better. I got a better boss. 00;49;20;02 - 00;49;45;18 Unknown They know what they're doing better. I can teach them how to you know, you know, lead through leaders intent or, you know, just establish a basic, you know, battle rhythm. All these different things that we learn, is going to make my life easier. More importantly, you're influencing everyone around you, right? And and if you can influence one, two levels up, two levels down, left and right, you just created a much stronger team. 00;49;45;18 - 00;50;08;18 Unknown That environment that you may not like is probably going to be a lot better, right? So invest in the role that you're in. And, and give it as due diligence because there's a very good chance that you're going to find, that, that what you learn from that position and what you learn from those experiences is going to set you up for success. 00;50;08;18 - 00;50;28;15 Unknown And I promise, you know this. Everyone else knows this. Somebody is watching. If you're this person's like, well, this sucks. I'm just going to do my work and punch you out at 5:00. Somebody's watching. But if somebody goes, hey, we have some legitimate problems and you're actively working on them, what do you think you could do from this level? 00;50;28;17 - 00;50;48;06 Unknown Right. And so now you're setting yourself up for, for, you know, success within that organization by doing the things that you know how to do right? Hey, I've got experience leaving at lead in at this level. Let me let me show you a few things. Let me influence the way you're making decisions, you know, and sometimes you can't just go to your boss and say, you suck. 00;50;48;06 - 00;51;11;02 Unknown I've done this. Listen to me. You just got to put those little, little, little flat in the bubbles in there. Hey, boss, have you thought about this or. You know, here's an idea. It's pretty amazing how how well you can change the environment you're in. If you're if you're just dedicated to to making everyone around you up and down, left and right better. 00;51;11;04 - 00;51;31;10 Unknown That part. Yeah. The influence that you have. And sometimes we forget. I'm guilty of it. I don't know about you, Josh, but, why can't they just see it? Well, I'm telling them. Yeah, we just talked about it. Sometimes they're not ready. And so tact and professionalism and strategy, strategic approach, you know, all of those things still factor in. 00;51;31;10 - 00;51;53;21 Unknown There's nothing different than what you learned. You know, to become an influence, you have to trust. You have to be trusted, you know, and there is this expectation that, you know, leaders, leaders in the civilian sector, they as we push for hiring veteran because the value we bring and all of these soft skill components that are demonstrating through that opportunity to be able to recognize that the opportunity exists to do these things. 00;51;53;21 - 00;52;13;04 Unknown Sometimes we forget and so don't like. I like what you said. They're watching. Everybody's watching because they're they're hoping that you're going to bring something different. It's just that you got to work towards that common ability to get to that part, to where everybody sees mutually exactly what the value is on, on both sides. So I love that piece. 00;52;13;06 - 00;52;38;01 Unknown So how does kind of segue into to closing out? How does how does one get connected to the organization, and what are some of the key details that you haven't already spoken about that they should expect going through that? Yeah. So, you know, like the name implies, we only work with with special operators. It's not that special operators are better than any other veteran. 00;52;38;03 - 00;53;00;18 Unknown They're not. The only difference is in order to come into our organization, they must have gone through a so com based, assessment selection process. And then served honorably in a soft unit. You know, that assessment selection process, it's there for a very specific reason. We're looking for people to have the character traits and attributes necessary to be successful in SA. 00;53;00;21 - 00;53;30;08 Unknown Well, the good news is those are the same character and character traits and attributes that every organization is looking for. We've just got a process that proves that they have them. So for an organization. So for Oracle to look down and say, hey, why should we hire a soft fella? Well, number one, it's a proven entity, right? It's somebody that that has that has gone through this process that proves that they have all of these skills that are going to be valuable to your organization. 00;53;30;13 - 00;53;59;06 Unknown Right? Just because of the nature of how we run, our program, it's at the individual level. So it's not cohort based. It takes a year to get through the program so I can shorten that down in in certain circumstances. I can turn that into 8 or 9 months. But the sweet spot for a year, and I'll even take folks out to 18 months if they're, you know, if they're in a role that that this is going to be a process, they're still in a command position to commence our major position, where they're going to be super busy. 00;53;59;06 - 00;54;19;22 Unknown Okay. Let's stretch this out a little bit so you can still get all of this, but still be able to accomplish the things you do. So those are kind of the two main criteria. We do a vetting process. Everyone that comes through the program, we make them, we make them get letters of recommendation, and we ask, you know, three pretty specific questions. 00;54;23;16 - 00;54;49;09 Unknown Is this someone that that you would put your name behind if you if you had control of the sort of budget, would you invest this amount of money into this individual? And are there any legal moral concerns that would that would hinder you for making this endorsement? If I could, if I can get three people to answer those three questions, they're the the right individual to come into the program. 00;54;49;16 - 00;55;14;08 Unknown And again, our reputation is built on the fact that we're putting the right people in front of organizations and saying, hey, this is a vetted entity that has proven their worth within, you know, an organization that is, you know, it's, it's 2 to 3% of the entire DoD force, right? There is a selection criteria that that you can trust. 00;55;14;10 - 00;55;39;20 Unknown And we have now given them a year of, of training, coaching, mentorship, to help them really understand what they're going to be able to bring to a role. So the process is it's a three phase process. While they're in active solo. Phase one, is one on one executive coaching really designed to help them understand who they are and what they can bring to an organization and the development of their new value proposition statement. 00;55;39;22 - 00;56;02;06 Unknown Right. In the military, you've got your reputation. People know who you are. They've seen what you've done. You've built this reputation of becoming the person that can take on that next higher, level of responsibility outside of the military. Nobody knows who you are, particularly if coming out of special operations. You know, just because of the the classifications and all the things that we do. 00;56;02;08 - 00;56;31;22 Unknown So we have to we have to help start branding you outside of the military. And we can't do that until we know who you are. And we can't really help you do that until you know who you are. So we haven't developed their value propositions them, and we haven't developed 3 or 4 stories that validate that value proposition statement that they can, you know, if you say, hey, I solve, you know, complex problems in austere environments, I go, oh, tell me about a time you're like, well, you know, there was this one time, no, man, that's not going to fly, right? 00;56;31;22 - 00;57;02;11 Unknown You've you've got to be able to to articulate why you can provide that. We really help them define the criteria for successful transition for them in their families. Right. Spent a lot of time, you know, in that conversation. Then we we do some, some psychometric inventories. Primarily we use the, tri metrics DNA, to figure out what are your strengths and skills, what are some of your weak areas, and how do you how do you use those to your advantage, or how do you mitigate some of those? 00;57;02;13 - 00;57;22;08 Unknown That that may be a difference. We wrap this all up into an executive summary at the end of phase one that for the individual, for that fellow becomes the ultimate checklist of is this the right role for me? Am I going to be able to to work within my value proposition statement? Is this company aligned with my personal professional goals? 00;57;22;11 - 00;57;40;15 Unknown Am I aligned with this organization's culture? Is it does it meet my geography and does it meet my salary requirements? We use that document as we jump into phase two to help start branding them outside of the military. So figure out who they are and what they want to do, and then figure out how to introduce them to another organization. 00;57;40;17 - 00;58;09;26 Unknown Phase two is really kind of focused on on, two different areas. First one is expanding a network, helping, you know, using our network to help them expand theirs. And then the other part are the hard skills of transition, right. How to network, how to use the available tools, how to write a really good base document resume, and then how to take that base document and targeted towards a specific role you're going after. 00;58;09;29 - 00;58;33;21 Unknown And then how to win the interview by proving you were the solution to somebody's problem. And this is a big conversation we we have like, hey, nobody's hire you because you're a veteran, right? Nobody's hire you because you're a Green Beret or Navy Seal or the greatest half sock pilot to to walk into the planet. Somebody is hiring you because they have a problem at their organization, and they need someone to fix it. 00;58;33;21 - 00;58;53;16 Unknown And you have to prove that you are the solution to that problem based off the experiences that you bring. We want them in phase two for as long as they can be. So the transition point there is 120 days out before your available hire date. Whether you want to start working while you're on, you know, terminal leave, you want to wait till retirement. 00;58;53;16 - 00;59;13;16 Unknown You want to take a couple months off and go vacation with the family, whatever that is 120 days before that, we shift from networking and we start capitalizing on opportunities that either they have developed or we have introduced them to. So we jump into phase three and now it's execution. Right now it's time to start interviewing for those roles. 00;59;13;19 - 00;59;36;10 Unknown The final interview prep post interview was any follow up interviews, guidance and support for or through what's on offer has been extended. Go through that offer letter with them so they fully understand what that means. And then the big one is comp negotiation, right? I have no time in in our military careers. Do we get to go to the first hour and say, hey, I'm worth more than the other two certs? 00;59;36;10 - 00;59;58;08 Unknown And here's why. But there's an expectation of that during the process. And again, hiring an individual is a business decision, which means that they want to get you for as little as possible to do as much as possible. But there's a bracket, right? What we're want to pay, what we're willing to pay. And so we work with them to be able to articulate why they're worth that higher end of that bracket. 00;59;58;10 - 01;00;17;13 Unknown And so we go offer letter review help with comp negotiation. Once somebody has accepted that role, we then put them into what we call phase four or the assimilation. And we start with a conversation about, hey, what are your best practices for your first 30, 60 to 90 days in your new role? What are the things that you need to to prioritize? 01;00;17;19 - 01;00;52;10 Unknown How do you what do you need to know about the business? What do you need to know about your role? What do you need to know about your flow, or your position within that flow of business and how do you get noticed the right way to set yourself up for long term? Success. And then we're just there and available for them if they have any questions, any concerns, anything comes up when they've been in the role about 90 days, because that's that's when you start to kind of feel like, all right, I know, I know enough about this role to be dangerous, but I also know enough to not, you know, overstep my 01;00;52;10 - 01;01;11;00 Unknown bounds. Then we ask them to come on and and move to the alumni side. So when the next guy comes out and says, hey, I'm super interested in you, go to Oracle and get into business development. And I go, hey, great. Let me put you in touch with Chris Spencer. He's a sort of fellow. He's working over at Oracle. 01;01;11;00 - 01;01;32;22 Unknown He'll be a really good, mentor for you. And then the idea is that person becomes the traction that pulls somebody through their transition. So, you know, it's the always it's it's take full advantage of everything that we're going to offer you in the program and then give back to the organization. So you're going to help the next, you know, veteran, through their process. 01;01;32;24 - 01;01;57;18 Unknown And that's what we do. It's amazing makes makes all the sense in the world. And I really love that last part is we're we're helping you so you can help others bring them through. You know, force multiplication, right? Yeah. The more veterans we can get into the workspace, into those positions where they they've got a good level of influence and they can make everyone around them better, the better every organization is going to be. 01;01;57;19 - 01;02;26;02 Unknown Take the good from the Army. None of the hey, show up 15 minutes before the 15 minute mark. But all of the good to what we do. And it's good, man. I've got 330 fellows in the program right now. We've got 700. And I think at 745, some 46 alumni through the through the process last year, we helped, we helped transition 163 fellows, with some good average salaries. 01;02;26;02 - 01;02;56;09 Unknown So, putting people into the right roles that are commensurate with their experience and desire. So it's a good program. It's a good team. Yeah. No, it sounds like it. And I know I really like it, for me at least the of the many things and the value. But the one thing that stands out as being able to help them land on their worth and be able to explain that, because that that's hard, as we know it's you're supposed to know you're supposed to read my mind. 01;02;56;09 - 01;03;18;00 Unknown Look at my resume. Yeah, but which is not like that very, very well, why wouldn't you want to? Hard. Yeah. I don't even know what that means. Okay, so explain that. Why don't you call me when you do? I'll be over here. Well thank you, Josh, thank you so much. What? You know, and I'll put the details in the, in the podcast description, but how do they how do they find this information? 01;03;18;00 - 01;03;39;17 Unknown Anybody willing to learn more? Yeah. So, if you go to sort of.org sorry for 4G, there's multiple ways in the website that you can help out if you're interested in supporting it. We're a nonprofit 501 C3. So we live and die off of, donations. If if this is something that that you think you'd like to get behind, there's definitely a place to do that. 01;03;39;20 - 01;03;57;17 Unknown But there's also how do I get involved? And I am always looking for mentors for the fellows. If I get somebody that's working at Oracle and they're doing marketing or logistics or, you know, whatever, and they're like, hey, I think I could be a benefit. There's a place to sign up to be a mentor. We'll have a conversation. 01;03;57;17 - 01;04;18;23 Unknown We'll figure out, hey, how do we how do we start plugging, plugging you in and people that are interested in doing the thing that you've become an expert at. Got it. And if they have specific questions, they contact you. Or is there another place? By all means, come directly to me. It's, Josh, it's sort of.org, and yeah, I'd love to have a conversation. 01;04;18;25 - 01;04;46;06 Unknown Got it. All right. Any any final words you want to share with anybody listening that you want them to know? Yeah. You know, we touched on earlier, we we actually went into it pretty in-depth. But this is a decision point that is no longer being dictated by somebody else. This is a decision point for you and your family, and you and your family should be actively engaged in this. 01;04;46;09 - 01;05;13;01 Unknown If you're thinking, hey, this is just me, I got to be the provider for my family. I'll do what I think is right for me. Probably not going to be the best solution. Have that conversation. You know what's the most important thing to your wife? Is it is it making a ton of money? Maybe. Is it being available to to take the kids to soccer games and ballet practice and, you know, all those things then then figure out what that needs to look like. 01;05;13;01 - 01;05;34;01 Unknown Have a joint discussion about, hey, what does our budget need to, you know, how much money do we need to bring in in order to to put us where we need to be and then start actively pursuing the things that as a couple, you have made those decisions. So I think it's so important. I mean, look, transition, you're leaving the military. 01;05;34;01 - 01;05;54;05 Unknown You leaving, all of these things that have been very comfortable and you and your family are going into a new chapter. If you're not doing that together, there are some friction points headed your way. So start smoothing those friction points out really solid. All right, Josh thank you. I appreciate your time I appreciate it. Thank you man. 01;05;54;07 - 01;06;00;07 Unknown All right everybody keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

1
How You Show Up: Bridget "Doc" Miller, Oracle Talent Advisor, US Army Veteran, Military Spouse 42:44

9 днів тому42:44

42:44

Bridget’s personal and career journey is marked by purpose, resilience, and an evolving understanding of what it means to lead with intention. From her early ambitions to her role today in supporting veteran transitions through coaching for role fit, she shares how her personal and professional experiences have shaped her approach to career growth and mentorship. Through honest reflections, Doc talks about developing the self-awareness to identify what she truly wanted, and how that clarity transformed the way she shows up—in her relationships, her work, and in the guidance she offers others. You will hear a grounded take on the realities of ambition, the importance of emotional balance, and how veterans and military spouse’s can translate their strengths—like grit and drive—into any environment without losing what makes them unique. With insights on communication, adaptability, and owning your story, this episode is a thoughtful look at how to move forward with purpose, and why doing the internal work is often the most important part of any process…to include getting from where you are to where you want to be. https://www.linkedin.com/in/bridgetmiller1001/ https://www.oracle.com/veterans https://www.oracle.com/careers/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;34;00 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by Bridget Doc Miller, Oracle talent advisor, U.S. Army veteran, and military spouse. Bridget's personal and career journey is marked by purpose, resilience, and an evolving understanding of what it means to lead with intention. 00;00;34;00 - 00;00;55;11 Unknown From her early ambitions to a role today in supporting veteran transitions through coaching for role fit, she shares how her personal and professional experiences have shaped her approach to career growth and mentorship. Through Honest reflections, doc talks about developing the self-awareness to identify what she truly wanted and how that clarity transformed the way she shows up in her relationships, her work, and in the guidance she offers others. 00;00;55;12 - 00;01;20;08 Unknown In this episode, you'll hear a grounded take on the realities of ambition, the importance of emotional balance, and how veterans and military spouses can translate their strengths like grit and drive into any environment without losing what makes them unique. With insights on communication, adaptability, and owning your story, this episode is a thoughtful look at how to move forward with purpose and why doing the internal work is often the most important part of any process to include getting from where you are to where you want to be. 00;01;20;08 - 00;01;39;01 Unknown We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Doc's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. 00;01;39;03 - 00;02;02;24 Unknown Bridget Miller. Doc, what is going on? Hey, how are you? So good. How are you doing? Doing all right. So we're here talking about some things. We're coming into Military Appreciation Month, and for you, I'm sure that's considered every month. Veteran's day is every day, that type of thing. Spouse day is every day, every day, every day. So let's do that. 00;02;02;28 - 00;02;24;12 Unknown Let's talk about Bridget Doc Miller. Yeah, sure. First of all, you know how much I love talking about myself. So you must have some special magic to get me to agree to this, but really excited to be here. Thanks for having me on. I guess going back to the beginning, I grew up in Ohio, went and did my undergraduate, the university of Akron. 00;02;24;14 - 00;02;45;09 Unknown And then during that time, that's where I enlisted into the Army within the National Guard component. So I was A68 whiskey or a medic within the National Guard. I would say that's kind of the point. That really changed the pathway of my life. And I've been working with the military population pretty much ever since then. In college. 00;02;45;09 - 00;03;08;11 Unknown That's where I met my husband, Tyler. Back then, he was a, you know, cadet in ROTC. I loved making fun of him for that one, but he eventually commissioned, when active duty, and we actually spent the first six months of our marriage geo batching. So that was pretty much a crash course in the solitary lifestyle of a military spouse that we see sometimes. 00;03;08;14 - 00;03;32;25 Unknown And I really got to see, you know, the military affiliation from a new perspective. During that time, I stayed back in Ohio while he did his initial entry training. So that that bullock training that Army officers need to go to when they first start finished up my MBA. It was definitely just a total head down, grinding time of my life that it is absolutely quick as I could. 00;03;32;27 - 00;03;57;18 Unknown And I also worked in the military science department helping recruit for the RTC program. Got to do some pretty cool stuff while I was in that role. Even got to read my husband's commissioning, as the MC, which was pretty cool. We met back up later, my husband and I at Fort Bragg and I worked for a university, helping to build their military pipeline as a national military recruiter. 00;03;57;21 - 00;04;23;19 Unknown So traveled around all over the United States just helping build that military affiliated pipeline, meeting tons and just awesome people. That role in particular was, you know, really life changing. I developed really quickly as a professional and learned how to hold my own in a roomful of veterans that looked different than me. Right? I was the only woman veteran at the time. 00;04;23;23 - 00;04;48;23 Unknown I worked with only male military retirees. So I was the young woman in a crowd that just was completely different on the experience level than I was, but I had a really good leader there. Shout out to Bob Habib if he's listening. But he always amplified my voice, and he really gave me a seat at the table in the veteran space, which I think was the push that I needed. 00;04;48;26 - 00;05;09;17 Unknown I couldn't take that role with me when we pieces. We ended up moving after a few years to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, and I couldn't take it with me there. But honestly, that was kind of a blessing in disguise. Because that's how I landed here at Oracle. Started as a military veteran sourcing a recruiter, actually, at that time, got to work pretty close with you. 00;05;09;17 - 00;05;34;11 Unknown And that's how we met. So loved that experience. But I was helping build the military veteran pipelines into multiple of the military pathways here at Oracle. So things like that academy, you know, skill bridge, sweet beds, those types of things, and then later moved into the talent advisor role handling the full cycle of the candidate experience from, you know, that first call all the way to the offer. 00;05;34;14 - 00;05;59;07 Unknown And I still have some hands and things like skill bridge, sweep pads, those types of programs as well. Now where I'm at today, I am currently out of Fort Campbell, Tennessee. We are kind of in the midst of a PKS move right now, like we were talking about before this, to the Washington, DC area. So moving to Springfield, dealing with the new military, moving contracts and all of that. 00;05;59;07 - 00;06;22;17 Unknown So I'm definitely kind of in the middle of all of those challenges. But looking forward to moving there next month. Very nice, very precise backstory. Appreciate the the work putting in there to make it simple. There's no doubt way too much detail. No, no, I think you just write them out. You left out a piece though, because you're going on a career path and talking about education in somewhere in there. 00;06;22;17 - 00;06;52;02 Unknown You earned a PhD. Yeah. So that leader that I had mentioned, doctor Bob Habib, he it really encouraged me to kind of pursue my passion of working with the military population. And at the time, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to look like. I knew I wanted to have an impact on military affiliated individuals, whether that be spouses, veterans, active service members, whatever it was, I knew that's the space I wanted to be in. 00;06;52;04 - 00;07;17;26 Unknown And when you get to that level of education, it's really nice because you can kind of tailor everything you do over multiple years to a very specific topic. So you're going really deep into one topic, not so narrow across a variety of topics. So. So the next few years I researched and developed a seminar series I kind of wrote. 00;07;18;00 - 00;07;48;12 Unknown I would call it like a mini book, right? My dissertation equivalency. But that centered around how organizations can recruit, retain, develop military affiliated individuals. Where I saw the need was, you know, I originally went in thinking that I would help develop something that would help transitioning service members, moving into the corporate space. But I realized that those programs were out there. 00;07;48;12 - 00;08;14;02 Unknown There was a lot of programs out there that already address that need, and what I didn't see as much of was, from the organizational perspective, how we can bring veterans in and support them through their corporate journey as well. So that seminar series was a three part series. So the first one was just familiarity of the military population, kind of educating organizational leaders on the basics. 00;08;14;02 - 00;08;35;29 Unknown I remember, you know, during my like pre seminar series assessment, one of the questions was can you name the branches of the military and very, very few of the participants were able to do that. So I noticed that a lot of the main findings around readiness for veterans just centered around the general education to the public about the military population. 00;08;36;01 - 00;08;57;24 Unknown So that was kind of the first thing to tackle. And then after that, we dug a lot more into the recruitment and then specifically the retention of that population as well. Nice. I'm taking nice, nice. Yes, because it all ties back. And if if anybody's familiar, if anybody listening is familiar with how RDoC works now, it makes sense. 00;08;57;29 - 00;09;17;18 Unknown It's everything should click right now because you have you have a yeah I know you're very humble and yes to go back to what you're saying, it did take a couple of attempts to try to get Bridgette on on the podcast here, because it is it is to, to define what the what what the top track would include and things like that. 00;09;17;18 - 00;09;33;28 Unknown And so but the reality is your influence is greatly appreciated because of what you do and how you do the how you do what you do for the recruiting and then the conversations. I think even though recruiting is a channel and that's the focal, the focal point of what what you're doing, but why you're doing it is not that so much. 00;09;33;28 - 00;10;03;00 Unknown I mean, it is it's inclusive, but it's not same. It's it's the purpose. So let's go back a bit, because a lot of the stuff that we talk about when we're having a conversation about what we do, and then as life occurs and the more that we're involved in what we're doing, whether it's a career or a, you know, a profession or a habit, hobby, what have you, it's why so early on when you chose to go in the National Guard, what was the reason? 00;10;03;02 - 00;10;36;18 Unknown Yeah, I know you're going to ask this. I'm pretty predictable. If you listen to me, I said I would. I would love to say that I joined because I had a long family line of military service or, you know, something like that. But I think if I'm being completely honest with myself and with you, I just got got by a recruiter, a recruiter got me at the right time, right place, right point in my life where, you know, I was in college and I was trying to self-fund my way through college. 00;10;36;18 - 00;11;04;01 Unknown And the benefits of joining the military were something that made sense in my life for me to do. So. Yeah, I was young. I am so glad that it happened. Because I think it made me who I am today. And I don't think I realized it at the time, but I'm definitely the type of person that enjoys working towards a shared goal and working in an area that's bigger than myself. 00;11;04;01 - 00;11;25;19 Unknown So if I hadn't enlisted, I think that my life would be in a very different place than it is now. So yeah, super glad I think I was just right time, right place and the right recruiter reached out. That's why I enlisted that. That's good. And of course, be honest completely with yourself. Yeah, jokes aside, because that does matter. 00;11;25;19 - 00;11;49;26 Unknown I mean, and I would love to talk about that. We'll put a pin in it, because I think that statement alone is important for the things that occur now when, yeah, when you're paying it forward and trying to have a conversation with somebody as to why they're wanting what they're wanting and introspect is important. So being being honest with yourself is, is the number one thing that for instance factor accelerator. 00;11;49;26 - 00;12;07;16 Unknown Right. So the Honor Foundation has a the project vector accelerator that that has been spun up that focuses on that identity. Being honest with yourself on what you want to do and what you want to achieve and things like that. So it is a part of the equation. But now we're going to the medic, because even though I think if I, if I didn't know, which I really don't. 00;12;07;16 - 00;12;24;09 Unknown So this is going to be I'm going to learn from this also it yeah, it does track as to why selfless reasoning. Even though you're trying to put yourself through college, there was a point to go into that, because the reason why you chose to do that still includes selflessness. Which medic that track, but not talk about that. 00;12;24;09 - 00;12;50;04 Unknown Why? Why medic. Yeah. So a couple of reasons. My undergrad was actually pre pre med. I had planned originally to go into physician assistant school, after graduation. And, and I'm not doing that just because of kind of the path that my life was on at the time. But I was pre-med in my undergrad. So, you know, I was I was booksmart, and I had the scores to be able to do it. 00;12;50;06 - 00;13;15;14 Unknown I remember I went into my recruiter's office and I had told him I wanted to be the closest thing I could to infantry, which at the time was not an option for me as a woman. So, yeah, I think based on, you know, the scores, my, my background, the things that I enjoyed in the medical field and then just trying to get me closer to, you know, back then the cool guy stuff. 00;13;15;14 - 00;13;36;21 Unknown Right. That just aligned really well. And yeah, super glad I did it. Because of the length of, you know, things like I for medics, I actually split up that experience. So after freshman year of college, I went to basic training, for Excel to finish up my sophomore year of college. And then we had something called the split option. 00;13;36;23 - 00;13;58;02 Unknown So I did it sophomore year. I think I missed one semester and a full summer of school, and then spent that time at Fort Sam Houston going through medical it, getting my EMT, things like that. Fort Sill, Oklahoma, for those. Listen, beautiful Fort Sill, Oklahoma, the first time I've ever heard somebody having been there for in the conversations I've had. 00;13;58;04 - 00;14;20;21 Unknown So welcome to the board. Fort sill. So how was that experience that, you know, so let's talk about the recruiter real quick. I mean, the skill sets, because you are one didn't learn anything from what you experienced back then. Stick with you to what you're doing now. Yeah, 100% transparency is the number one thing that sticks out when we're talking about that. 00;14;20;21 - 00;14;42;16 Unknown I am a big believer and transparent and see and finding the right fit for somebody. I don't agree with the concept of kind of selling a role, and I've never seen anyone at Oracle do that, by the way. But, I have seen recruiters do that where maybe they're using excitement of certain things to get somebody into a specific military MOS. 00;14;42;19 - 00;15;21;25 Unknown But he was really transparent about, you know, how difficult that would be, especially as a small small framed person right on five foot. So going to meet a guy I knew that would be a big physical challenge for me. So he was really transparent. And the growth that I needed to have before going to be successful, and I kind of use that in my role now, because when I'm talking with somebody, I want to be very transparent about, you know, what the interview process is, what the role they're interviewing looks like, what that means for them. 00;15;21;28 - 00;15;45;28 Unknown And in addition, addressing those gaps and having some coachable conversations, especially with the military population on how they can address those gaps throughout their interviews. Right. They may not have this very specific skill, but they have something along those same lines from their military background. So helping folks kind of translate that conversation as well. Yeah, I think he caught on that. 00;15;45;28 - 00;16;04;17 Unknown If you if you use the words give me as close to infantry as possible, he's probably playing off of that says, yeah, well yeah. Okay. So good on him. You remember. Yeah. 18 year old duck. Yeah. Todd Everett, great guy. Actually recently transitioned. I had to send this to him when I, when it lists out, but. 00;16;04;25 - 00;16;30;26 Unknown Yeah. Great, dude. Nice. Super thankful. Good. So so while while you're going through all of that, you know, you going for your MBA? My guess is challenge had become and obviously the alignment between pursuing educational goals. But challenge seems to be something that's in your vocabulary up front. You love a challenge. Yeah. Do you? Yeah. I can get antsy when something becomes too easy. 00;16;30;26 - 00;16;50;19 Unknown So when that happens, I find some way to create a challenge in a fun way. You know, going from like even here at Oracle, going from sourcing, which is the front half to moving into full cycle, that created a challenge for me or, you know, finished with school. But maybe I wanted to pursue something a little deeper. That was definitely a challenge. 00;16;50;19 - 00;17;14;05 Unknown So absolutely, definitely something I value. All right. And then and then we get to the intention to pursue the PhD with the specialty occupying your time with another significant challenge with the MBA pursuing that. But but essentially, it sounds like you were driving towards something that you and tell me if I'm wrong on this, you're instinctively gravitating towards something very specific. 00;17;14;07 - 00;17;38;13 Unknown Where was that in your timeline before you decided to go into pursue the PhD in that particular topic? What happened? It stemmed from being a recruiter for that university, right? So it was essentially my role to travel the United States, go to things like career fairs or education fairs or whatever it may be specific to the military population. 00;17;38;13 - 00;18;05;26 Unknown And I was traveling to military installations, speaking with spouses, with transitioning service members. And I just saw the. Complete anxiety that comes with a transition like that, when people are leaving the security of a military occupation. Right. And at the time, I was addressing it in my role with, okay, here's the next steps for things like education, right? 00;18;05;26 - 00;18;26;00 Unknown So when you're leaving the military, you're either going to go to work, maybe you're retiring, but you're either going to go to work or you're going to go to school. There's a basically the two main options. So at the time I was addressing it on the education side, but I saw all of this anxiety surrounding the transition and truly just the identity shift. 00;18;26;00 - 00;18;54;09 Unknown And that is where that triggered in me wanting to be able to address that specific piece. Right? That three, four month period right before you leave and right after you leave the military. That's where I wanted to make the impact, because that's a pivotal moment in somebody's life. And so I got the education piece from my role and then decided to dig in on the transition, specifically through the educational journey. 00;18;54;11 - 00;19;30;27 Unknown You know, like I mentioned, I had originally intended to make it more of a transitioning program for military veterans. How they can translate their resume is how they can advocate for themselves in interviews. But what I found was that space was already saturated, did in the market with different programs. What I didn't see was programs that were designed for organizations to understand, you know, they're at the point where they've made the decision of, yes, we want veterans or yes, we want military affiliated individuals here, but they're at this now. 00;19;30;27 - 00;20;13;17 Unknown What crossroads, right. So after I think it was maybe like six months, starting that original transitioning year, I switched over to address the now what organizations looking to hire military affiliated individuals. Got it. And so to your question, it did. And thanks for that. And I was a little fuzzy on the ask, but it is typically because you you briefly mentioned it obviously in your intro, as you said, you walk us through the timelines, but it's, you know, I'm usually I notice that there's there's a flash point, even though we generalize and we talk through this, the story at a high level to give, give a sense, a general sense of what occurred. 00;20;13;20 - 00;20;45;03 Unknown There's usually a circumstance or an event, a specific event that occurred where the switch flips and then you all of a sudden are intentionally focused with relentless pursuit of that thing, you know, and this is the little that I do know of you having worked with you early on, I mean, early in in my short attempt at becoming a recruiter, tough to hang with the big dogs, talking to, talking about doc here, you just say, I need 20 and you blink and all of a sudden the next morning you got 20. 00;20;45;06 - 00;21;13;14 Unknown So you have these on Rolodex. How do you get so many people so fast? Well, you know, we'll talk about that. But there's usually an occurrence and and that drives, I think, what embeds ourselves to where we embody the, the purpose. Right. And that's the drive that makes it consistent. Right. And the conviction I think is in your recruiting, in your talk tracks and some of those, you know, the way that you're having a dialog with somebody where they you establish the trust that shines through. 00;21;13;14 - 00;21;34;29 Unknown And I'm just looking to see what what appeared for you. Yeah, it was definitely a slow burn for me. I think the only point in time where it was an absolute like, I'm only targeting this, was when I couldn't take my role with me from Fort Bragg, when we PKS to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. I remember, it was like January that year. 00;21;34;29 - 00;21;53;00 Unknown We had just moved in and my husband was like, okay, what do you want to do? And I said, here's exactly what I want to do. I want to work for a fortune 500 company. I want to have a great impact on the veteran population, and I want to be specifically working in some type of talent acquisition space. 00;21;53;02 - 00;22;19;28 Unknown And then, I mean, I'm a big proponent of faith based open doors. And I got exactly that. You can tell Oracle. Yeah. Agreed. I mean, but you earned it. Just to be clear. Yeah. Not to go too far into that, you know, it's when you set it up, you're prepared for the opportunity and you are absolutely, seemingly putting in the work to get to that part, to have earned the opportunity. 00;22;20;01 - 00;22;37;29 Unknown Let's talk a little bit about now where you're at at that stage is the the military spouse. Now, you know, you've just recently landed a new spot and good on your husband for asking the question and including you and saying, what do you want to do? I mean, it's that not to that, because that sometimes isn't all the time happen. 00;22;38;01 - 00;22;57;14 Unknown Yeah, he really gave me the space to figure out exactly what I wanted and the time to find it, which is a luxury that I'm really thankful for. Yeah, I that so once, once you once you got to once you had the opportunity to to think about what you wanted and you were very intentional on what you were looking for. 00;22;57;21 - 00;23;28;14 Unknown Fortune 500 having an impact. You came here. How has it gone so far, like from when you started, which was when? About three, three and some change years ago? Three and some change. Yeah. And from then to now, what's worked well, and what are some of the things that you're still working through to improve for, not only for yourself, but as you're experiencing putting it all together on focused on the veterans, really a community trying to help business leaders find the right talent for their teams and things like that. 00;23;28;17 - 00;23;56;00 Unknown You know, help us. Help us see what you experienced so far. When I started out, I was very specific to the military population, so I started I was a military source. They're very specific to the military affiliated population. I did that for about a year. And so during that time, I really built up my military and affiliated network and LinkedIn, what you refer to as the Rolodex, right. 00;23;56;00 - 00;24;22;11 Unknown Just like these individuals that I talk to often reconnect with within this space. And that did a lot with other organizational, you know, military affiliated talent. Folks worked a lot with military talent program management here. And when I moved over to the team after that, I actually moved out of what would technically be considered like a military population recruiter. 00;24;22;11 - 00;24;49;02 Unknown Right. But I don't think a lot of people realize that because I still put so much effort into building the military pipeline here. So even though it wasn't necessarily in my job description to do that, I think that it was really important with my background to just advocate for those types of candidates. Those types of candidates transition and then try to create space. 00;24;49;02 - 00;25;15;09 Unknown When I'm working with hiring managers for those military affiliated individuals to fit what they're looking for. Right? So, yeah, I think even though I'm not, you know, necessarily in that military role now, I still try to have the impact on that population and as much as I possibly can. Got it. Yeah. I imagine it bleeds into other things too, where you know, you're taking the best of of what's worked. 00;25;15;09 - 00;25;41;17 Unknown And then, yeah, refining it and improving the new space that you're in. And this changed where you transitioned into this role here. It was just in the last two months ish. Right? I want to say it was October 2022 as a tan advisor on the early career team. So I was doing full cycle with that. And then just recently, you know, a few weeks ago I moved over to more experienced talent advisory role. 00;25;41;17 - 00;26;11;06 Unknown So working on higher level higher, I got into graduate relations on that. I because you said it, I'm not we're not worried that you're abandoning you still helping to kind of never never because I want to weave in some things. So you know we're we're talking about your own career. You know, you were afforded the opportunity and of course, supported with your family in, in what your goals included on on individualizing your focus and, and having your own thing. 00;26;11;09 - 00;26;33;14 Unknown Yeah. What are some of the things that military spouse go through, you talked about early on being separated over a period of time, talking about some of the goals and aspirations that you have, and unfortunately, you've had support doing that. Yeah. You just said the challenges with the military spouse life. Yeah. It's a long list. Yeah. So I talked a little bit about job matching at the beginning. 00;26;33;16 - 00;26;51;19 Unknown You know when my husband was at Fort Leonard Wood and I was in Ohio job matching for those that don't know is when your spouse lives at a different installation than you do, fairly common in the military spouse life. And that's definitely a kind of a solitary experience. So I have dealt with that. You know, other challenges. 00;26;51;19 - 00;27;24;05 Unknown I don't think we touched on it actually, in the introduction, but I do have two children. I have a four year old and a seven month old as of yesterday, dealing with deployments with children is indescribable. How much of a challenge that can be? I think that, you know, folks that haven't been a military spouse, especially with deployments or long TDY, is they might grasp the concept of their spouse being away. 00;27;24;12 - 00;27;46;05 Unknown But I think when you compile that with, you know what they say, it takes a village, right? With children when your village is in a different state, right? Everyone you know, everyone you can lean on for support is in a different state, far away. I mean, the closest we've ever lived is eight hours from family. So when my husband is gone or deployed, it's it's just me. 00;27;46;07 - 00;28;18;28 Unknown So that is definitely a challenge. Just maintaining their routine and their sense of normalcy during that time, trying to work on your own professional development, trying to get some chicken nuggets on a table, just whatever it is. It's a challenge that I think that it's a really it's a hard concept to grasp until you go through it. Even me, military background, military spouse, my first diplomat with children was, very eye opening. 00;28;19;00 - 00;28;48;00 Unknown And I have a newfound respect for folks who have, you know, lots of kids that do lots of deployments. And then I would say, finally, the challenge of your career or your aspirations, just by the nature of the military, essentially have to come second a lot of the times, right? So, for example, this year coming up, if I didn't have a role that could move with me, which was very intentional, you know, coming to Oracle, I made sure that that was an option. 00;28;48;00 - 00;29;09;17 Unknown But if I didn't have a role that could come with me, I would have to leave right when I worked at Regent and when I couldn't take that role with me, it wasn't an option, and I had to leave a role that I just absolutely loved. So that is definitely a big challenge, especially for, you know, a military spouse that is within the working space. 00;29;09;19 - 00;29;38;02 Unknown So I would say those are the three biggest things, really, just the solitary lifestyle getting used to that, you know, not having the ability to lean on support that is physically with you, your career kind of being second to the military and then just needing to to leave sometimes. Thanks for sharing that. And yes, it is, it is an experience that it if you haven't gone through it conceptually, you can understand. 00;29;38;04 - 00;30;08;16 Unknown But yeah. So you know, it is truly an experience and and shout out to all of those that are doing it. It's not easy. So you're moving through into a different role, but your focus and your participation and your engagement still includes helping others understand the differences. So, you know, I'm going to kind of weave this back into that part where you were focused on organizations and educating them on understanding the the community or the demographic that they're hiring. 00;30;08;18 - 00;30;29;17 Unknown How much how much of that still plays a part in what you do here. Again, going back to helping business leaders find the right people and then making sure that the hiring side, not the the candidacy side, the hiring side is, is as informed as possible on why this person is in front of them and understanding the dynamics of that individual going into that. 00;30;29;17 - 00;30;59;06 Unknown That process is still a huge part of my role. Definitely. Having those conversations with hiring leaders to understand that, you know, being open minded to the military background can be really beneficial. You know, a lot of times there's a lot more in a military affiliated resumé than maybe meets the eye. Right? Unless they have just amazing translation skills and know little corporate space very well. 00;30;59;09 - 00;31;18;20 Unknown A lot of the times it's a simple matter of something like wording or leaving something out, right? Like for example, you know, you have a lot of NetSuite folks on, and if I talk to a military affiliated Canada and say, hey, do you know, you know, what an ERP system is? They say, no, but they were a super user in GCS. 00;31;18;20 - 00;31;52;15 Unknown It's like, well, there's a lot of relevant experience that you might have. That's more than more than meets the eye. And so I have those conversations pretty frequently with hiring leaders, just about kind of being open minded to the different military backgrounds, understanding specifically what is trainable and what we're looking for. And I think for hiring leaders, understanding what is trainable and what is coachable is really key, because a lot of the times those things that aren't coachable are the soft skills that military affiliated individuals just absolutely crush, right? 00;31;52;15 - 00;32;14;11 Unknown They bring the grit that is necessary for a lot of roles. They bring the things like longevity and commitment there to term, and they have integrity. So they're always working with integrity and things like that that are, to be honest, quite an easy sell for the population because those are the things that we can't teach. Those are the things that you have to search for in a candidate. 00;32;14;13 - 00;32;39;29 Unknown So as with strengths, many strengths, you know, they can help you and they can they can hurt you for lack of better ways of saying it. Yeah. You know, I have grit. What are some of the downsides of also that's inclusive of that. Having that quality that that you'd have to coach these candidates through to understand the level of I know I'm going to use this word the intensity, right. 00;32;39;29 - 00;33;07;24 Unknown Or the, the dense, the density. Yeah. That, that particular characteristic. Yeah. I think with that, the only time that I see, I guess, what you would consider the potential downside of those types of attributes are like grit, for example, is, you know, when you're moving through the hiring process or speaking with potential hiring leaders. Like you said, the intensity in which you describe that grit, or whatever that soft skill is. 00;33;07;27 - 00;33;29;03 Unknown So, you know, say, for example, we are really looking for somebody that can have clear, concise communication, right? And then that individual has clear, concise communication every day with the hiring leader. Or they're really determined for the role, but they're reaching out to the hiring leader twice a day, every day trying to get an update right. So everything can always go too far. 00;33;29;03 - 00;33;56;24 Unknown Eventually, every strength eventually could become a weakness. So I think on the front end of that, just coaching candidates to understand what is culturally acceptable in the corporate workforce. That may have been different in the military, right. If you're constantly trying to get an update on your paperwork from your S-1, your, your, your as when you're knocking on the door every single day trying to get an answer. 00;33;56;24 - 00;34;22;11 Unknown And that's sometimes the way you get the answer right. But that doesn't work in our space. So I guess coaching, like you mentioned, the intensity of those soft skills is key in finding success. Yeah, and I bring that up. And it's not to degrade or diminish the the quality. It's to give an understanding of balance. Right. You know that when we talk about what we see, if we serve we see this. 00;34;22;11 - 00;34;42;04 Unknown If you see it in competitive sports, you see it, you know, it's let's let's go. You know, the the highly motivated ready to ready to run through things to get to the end state. You know that's important. But it's also, you know to an extreme example of explaining it's to be the doc right. You can have have that calm appearance on the outside. 00;34;42;04 - 00;35;18;12 Unknown But that fire and tenacity can be burning inside. But you have to learn to control some of these things and, and I and that's what I wanted to call out with you, especially with your background on focusing how to how to educate those on understanding both sides. If there's an emphasis on you know, consideration for what the optics would include or what the perception of others might have, when you show too much ambition, too much potential and desire in these types of things, it comes in, in the enthusiasm, walking into an environment to where, yeah, there's going to be some change needed. 00;35;18;14 - 00;35;46;06 Unknown And for those who are skilled to see immediately in an environment or a condition or a situation where we're skilled and seeing the field of play, if you will, before the play develops. There's a there's a tact that we still have to include in communicating effectively what was being observed, instead of just go and try and fix it, are going to tell people, hey, there's a problem there, I'm gonna fix it. 00;35;46;09 - 00;36;14;06 Unknown There's a casualness that needs to be deployed at that point. And, and this is mostly for the folks that are very excited about the role. Yeah. That I always tell. Yeah, I always tell folks to, to try to match the energy of the hiring. It's right. Yeah. If you're going into a meeting and your your interviewer is very calm and composed and kind of, you know, soft spoken or something, that you're not going in there talking about how you're just going to crash everything all the time. 00;36;14;06 - 00;36;38;08 Unknown And. Yeah, so matching the energy is like, yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. Because my, my question, although I could have been a little bit more concise. What are some of the tips and tricks. And you just nailed it. It's match the energy that's better safe than sorry is to have more adaptability to what they're saying. And and of course what they're saying. 00;36;38;14 - 00;37;06;14 Unknown And you don't overplay, what else what tips and tricks. Yeah. What other things are there since we're down here? Yeah, I would say for job seekers, first things first is take ownership of your hunt. Understand exactly what you want. A lot of the times, and you probably see this as well, that a lot of the times will have, you know, folks reach out, especially from the military space. 00;37;06;16 - 00;37;22;22 Unknown Maybe they'll send me their resume on LinkedIn and say, hey, do you have anything for me? That is not, you know, taking ownership of your job hunt. Kind of like in the military, they always say, nobody cares as much about your career progression as you do. Right? So I think first things first is you got to figure out what you want. 00;37;22;22 - 00;37;43;12 Unknown And if you don't know what you want, that's totally fine. But doing things like having informational interviews with people in that role already are absolutely key. A recruiter can only provide so much information. A career coach can only provide so much information. So if you don't know exactly what you want to do, talk to people that are doing it every day. 00;37;43;12 - 00;38;04;00 Unknown Get the good, the bad, the ugly, and then be super clear when you're talking to hiring leaders, whether that be hiring managers, recruiters, whoever it is about what you want and why you're a fit for it. So doing the work first before you're you're having that outreach. Yeah. I mean, honestly, those are probably the two big takeaways that I could think of. 00;38;04;03 - 00;38;22;14 Unknown Now. That's a good one. I mean, those are those probably are the umbrella to which everything else falls into place after that. Because once you once you start to connect to that and then you do the work to understand what that means by identifying, well, considering we talked about it and we'll start to segue into the close, you're about it. 00;38;22;14 - 00;38;50;01 Unknown You no one know what you want. And that comes by way of being honest with yourself, more so than exactly right. Exactly. Want to comment on that or that's about where it's at. Where it is self-explanatory. Yeah, I think that's where it is. Just self-reflection is really key in your transition, and the only way to minimize that anxiety in the job search is to know exactly what you want and target it with laser focus. 00;38;50;04 - 00;39;06;14 Unknown And that port has a sub component to know what that is. What I don't know what I do. I don't know what I want to do, I know what I did, and I'm probably going to be comfortable in this. You probably hear this in every episode of this conversation that we have on the podcast. Is, you don't have to do what you did unless you want to. 00;39;06;16 - 00;39;25;05 Unknown Okay? Right. Yeah, I post about that a lot on LinkedIn. Your role in the corporate workforce or wherever you're moving, it does not have to do it does not have to be anything like what you did in the military. I am not a medic. I'm not an EMT. And I'm doing I think, okay, am I role. So yeah. 00;39;25;09 - 00;39;50;01 Unknown Yeah. Well so let me summarize and then we'll get to the to the final thoughts that you may have. So you you embody these things and that's, that's what is interesting about this conversation and you is because the fact is that, you know, the tenacity that you had to be where you were and then approach identifying what you wanted to do and then pursue it the way you did, you know, by my joining, right? 00;39;50;03 - 00;40;21;12 Unknown You say you got got but maybe that maybe it was less about you deciding and it was more about influence, but about yourself, man. Yeah. You were persuaded to do something you probably didn't want to do anyway, right? So yeah, he matched your energy and he got you. Got you where you got it. Right. So yeah. And then and then the MOS that you chose and then, you know, pursuing the degree, of course, the relationship that that occurred with your husband and that grew into now having the ability to be separated but still stay focused on what you were wanting to achieve. 00;40;21;12 - 00;40;42;27 Unknown And then what really stood out is when you get to that next duty station and then you're asked by your husband is, what do you want to do? And you were very intentional. Probably through oversimplifying and summarizing it. You had to do a lot of things before that to get to that time to where you said, I want to work here doing these things. 00;40;43;00 - 00;41;10;25 Unknown And that's what we're talking about, is that have to do the work to understand what you want to do with such conviction, because hiring managers probably don't say this enough. That's what they're looking for. When you tell your story is, why should we hire used kind of the theoretical question. It's wanting to be answered, but how you share what it is that you're interested in, you know, a lot of it comes down to you running away from something or you running into something, and we'd rather have somebody running into something. 00;41;10;27 - 00;41;38;13 Unknown Not to say we won't discount anybody else and the other factors, but we want somebody that wants this bad. Yeah, there's nothing better than a candidate that knows exactly what they want. And what they want is the role that you have open. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the other side of it too is the hiring, the hiring leaders also are, you know, in an awkward moment, vulnerability where they're taking a risk, you know, and, you know, the things that that go into the investment in the cost and all those things, it's all relative. 00;41;38;13 - 00;42;06;11 Unknown But it's a matter does it does take an effect. And so when somebody says, yes, there's a lot of hope in that. And we're banking on words perceived by the attitude shared to the story. And so it's people like you that actually give credibility to the to the process of recruiting. So appreciate you and for what you've done and then how the things are that you've gone through those things to get to where you are and then have the conviction that you have to help pay it forward through the community. 00;42;06;13 - 00;42;27;29 Unknown Any final thoughts? Yeah, I guess, you know, for hiring managers like I see on my LinkedIn a lot, hiring veterans, it's not a good deed. It's a good business. Be open minded to those conversations. And for job seekers, you know, take ownership of your hot lead when you're not in charge. Just do what you need to do to get where you want to be. 00;42;28;02 - 00;42;42;29 Unknown Got it. All right. Thank you for that. Thanks for your time. Thanks for coming on. Thank you, Chris, for having me. You got it, Padawan. Keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

1
Work Your Plan: Jesse Durrant, Senior Site Reliability Developer, Army National Guard Officer 40:24

13 днів тому40:24

40:24

We caught up with Jesse in between his Army National Guard duties to dive into a powerful conversation about ambition, resilience, and the power of community. Jesse shares how his drive, vision, and strong network helped him navigate the unique challenges of balancing military service with civilian life—challenges many of us rarely consider in our everyday career paths. We explore the behind-the-scenes planning, reflection, and foresight it takes to align personal goals with professional responsibilities—both in and out of uniform. Jesse brings to light how he created opportunities through preparation, perseverance, and a few tough life lessons. His upbeat, can-do mindset shines throughout, revealing why he continues to earn a seat at the table wherever he goes. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to harness their skills, rise to the occasion, and grow with gratitude for the people who help make it all possible. It’s an inspiring, energizing conversation you won’t want to miss! https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessedurrant/ https://www.oracle.com/veterans/ https://www.oracle.com/careers/ https://www.travismanion.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;35;10 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Mansour, and in this episode I'm joined by Jesse Durant, Oracle senior site reliability developer and Army National Guard officer. We caught up with Jesse in between his Army National Guard duties to dive into a powerful conversation about ambition, resilience, and the power of community. 00;00;35;11 - 00;00;59;08 Unknown Jesse shares how his drive, vision and strong network helped him navigate the unique challenges of balancing military service with civilian life challenges many of us rarely consider in our everyday career paths. We explore the behind the scenes planning, reflection, and foresight. It takes to align personal goals with professional responsibilities both in and out of uniform. Jesse brings to light how we created opportunities through preparation, perseverance, and a few tough life lessons. 00;00;59;08 - 00;01;15;19 Unknown His upbeat, can-do mindset shines throughout, revealing why he continues to earn a seat at the table wherever he goes. This episode is a must listen for anyone looking to harness their skills, rise to the occasion, and grow with gratitude for the people who helped make it all possible. It's an inspiring and energizing conversation you won't want to miss. 00;01;15;21 - 00;01;34;16 Unknown We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family, Jesse's contact details in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. 00;01;34;18 - 00;01;52;28 Unknown Hey, Jesse, what's going on? Not too bad. Chris is here. Another day in the office, you know. Excited to be here. Thank you for having me on the podcast. Pretty impromptu, but I'm excited to be here. Sometimes it is last minute, but you know how it is when somebody has a good idea or what they believe to be a good idea. 00;01;53;04 - 00;02;11;12 Unknown We act on that. The worst that could happen is somebody says no and you did not. So thanks for accommodating being flexible. Typically where we start just a little bit about you and let's go with that. All right. So let's start out with where I'm at now. Currently I've been with Oracle for three years. Just hit my three year anniversary this month, so I'm excited. 00;02;11;12 - 00;02;32;12 Unknown I've been part of the team for three years now. I'm a senior site reliability engineer and on tour ops. My manager and Scott Paper, as you know him pretty well. Fantastic manager currently, as well as working for Oracle, I serve in the Army National Guard and I'm a tenant there for the engineer. So vehicle engineer is my main job there. 00;02;32;15 - 00;02;51;07 Unknown Anything that needs to be built from ground up. The guy Rhodes, demolition. I'm the guy. And then I'm an avid runner. Like to run? I'm part of several run club there in the Seattle area. So if you want to get out and network and meet other tech people, Come running. Got it. That's that's pretty good. 00;02;51;07 - 00;03;16;28 Unknown So. So you're you're from are you originally from Seattle? So I'm originally from Eastern Washington. I grew up in Tri-Cities, Washington, mostly known for the Hanford nuclear site, back during the Manhattan Project. So Pasco is a specific city. It's, I'd tell a small town, population wise, it's growing. It's becoming bigger and bigger. The main industry there is agricultural and, the nuclear site, Washingtonian my entire life, though. 00;03;17;01 - 00;03;30;20 Unknown Got it as you were growing up. What were some of the things that you were doing out in Eastern Washington? What was, what was a kid doing in a town like that? So there's a lot of, the Columbia River runs right through the cities. It splits it up. So there's a lot of swimming in the river. 00;03;30;23 - 00;03;50;15 Unknown Even though was down, downstream from the nuclear site, you know, it was deemed safe. So we swam there a lot. Worked a lot as a kid growing up helping my dad with his lawn care business, as well as just hanging out with friends. Played sports my entire life growing up. Whether it's from, team sports like baseball, basketball. 00;03;50;15 - 00;04;10;22 Unknown Later on in life, I got into cross-country and track. More individualized, but still team aspect. So a lot of running, on the on my own funds try to enjoy the summer heat that we have down there compared to the West Coast. You know, 310 day, the sunshine. So significantly different than the West Coast. Oh, yeah, I bet, I bet, yeah. 00;04;10;22 - 00;04;31;15 Unknown The it's a little bit of trust going in that river, I guess. I mean, that's that's good. Yeah, definitely. So it was a lot of trail run or, street distance. What type of running? A mix of both. So, mostly street was in high school, and then later on I got into trail running, especially now that I moved to the west side of the state. 00;04;31;18 - 00;04;50;12 Unknown Been in the west side Seattle Bremerton area for the, since 2016. So that's where I fell in love with trail running. And, I really enjoyed that a lot easier on the body and, definitely more scenic. Yeah, I bet the scenery over there, I mean, I imagine both sides of the state is beautiful, but, 00;04;50;14 - 00;05;14;00 Unknown Yeah, very different on on the, Seattle side. Yeah, yeah, the east side. I like to say there's more tumbleweeds and there is trees. Oh. Got it. Yeah. All right. At least at least in the southeast part where I grew up. All right, so growing up in a town like that, at some point, did you did you get an itch and to feel like you were going to want to try to find something, something new to do? 00;05;14;02 - 00;05;35;01 Unknown Definitely. It being a bigger city population wise, it still didn't have the attractions and the job market that, you would be in for such a city population wise. And so I, I knew if I wanted to grow, expand my horizons, I would have to venture outside of the tri cities. Early on in life, I wanted to join a military. 00;05;35;02 - 00;05;53;19 Unknown I was like, at some point it wasn't a question if I was gonna join, but when and what branch? So senior year started talking to a recruiter, maybe recruiter, and start talking me out about the the Navy Seals training program they have. And, I was really excited about that. So senior year, like a month in or so. 00;05;53;20 - 00;06;13;20 Unknown I'm still 17, graduated early for, my age. I graduated 17, so speak to my parents. Hey, can you sign this waiver? It's a training program for, like, three months. Basically my entire senior year. And from there, they allowed me to go into maybe, maybe basic training and then into buds with an opportunity to, you know, try out for the seals. 00;06;13;22 - 00;06;32;22 Unknown And they said, no way. There's we're not going to put our son in danger. Right. So kind of put that on the backburner in high school as part of Deca, which is a business organization that's nationwide through high school and the collegiate level. And it learned a lot about business. So I was like, well, I can go to college, right? 00;06;32;23 - 00;06;50;23 Unknown I mean, that's a goal of mine as well, besides serving in the military. So I was awarded a one year scholarship from a construction class that was in high school my entire three years, where we did, we built a house every year from the ground up. So we fell back on my plan B for the moment, which was go to college. 00;06;50;29 - 00;07;08;20 Unknown After that first year of college, I realized how expensive college was, right? So I was like, ooh, how am I going to pay for this? I didn't come from, a very wealthy family, so I had to find a way to support myself through college. And I started thinking again about joining the military. How how can I get in? 00;07;08;23 - 00;07;25;23 Unknown How can I still join and serve my country? As patriotism was one of the main reasons for joining. And then later in life, I saw the benefits that came with it as well. So I decided to reach out to recruiters again. NASA. I had a buddy, one of my best friends in elementary school, all the way through high school. 00;07;25;24 - 00;07;44;26 Unknown His dad was a recruiter for the Oregon National Guard. He told me, you know, some tricks on how to get in to the military. Back in 2010, I did get approved by the my civilian doctors saying, hey, it should be fine because, I don't I had a longboarding accident my senior year right there in the middle of the year. 00;07;44;29 - 00;08;08;11 Unknown Had to overcome quite a bit. Was out of school for a little bit over a month. After that, my base was paralyzed for almost three months after that. So, that's kind of what made me put the military on the backburner again after that first time. The lieutenant's denying me, the approval to join. So that solidified my plan to backtrack and live by my plan to go to college for that year. 00;08;08;14 - 00;08;35;05 Unknown But after I found that, you know, I need some more funds. So from there, fast forward, I got a basic training and job, advanced individual training, which is your MOS. And so I was, the maintenance guy for a couple of years. And then as soon as I got back, I was like, back to school. And the guards, that's the benefit of the guard is being able to do serve your community and your nation as well as going to school. 00;08;35;08 - 00;09;01;26 Unknown Nice. What what part of maintenance were you? So the quartermaster, chemical repair, water pumps. I was part of a burn unit where our main mission within Washington state was the decontamination of any nuclear, any Cbrn, events or situations that happened within the state, like a train derailment or, or any sort of chemical spill. So I was the basically anything that was related to water pumps and water heaters. 00;09;01;29 - 00;09;22;21 Unknown I was the guy, but got roped into maintenance since I was the only one within my unit. So I hung out a lot with the mechanics. Got it. Yeah, I was a mechanic also, and so very familiar with with that team, where where I was stationed. Okay. Very nice. Any correlation between where you grew up and the fact that it was in that particular field? 00;09;22;24 - 00;09;43;23 Unknown It was, within a city about 30 minutes from the Hanford site. At the time, I never thought about it, if that, you know, strategically placed there in case of an incident. But, in hindsight, it looks like, it may have been for sure. Got it. It's a plan. It's always plan. Family. Yeah, there's always a bigger plan. 00;09;43;25 - 00;10;12;22 Unknown So that was what, 2010, 2011? 1111? Yep, yep. Okay, so then that you started out enlisted or was it because of college? Did you get in to be an officer? No, I started I enlisted, spent ten years enlisted. Okay. My military career has been, it's been a unique, a unique one, for sure. After basic training and I, I, I came back to college and I was like, well, maybe I'll look into being an officer. 00;10;12;22 - 00;10;33;03 Unknown Right? So I joined ROTC for a semester at the Washington State University in Pullman. And while I was there, I realized I'd been in at this point two years. And the program is self is basically self led among students. Students are all leadership. So we police each other with the advice and guidance from the active duty personnel. 00;10;33;06 - 00;10;58;21 Unknown And at that time, 2000, this is 2012. Now, the got phase was was big. If you're in the Army, you do have a patch. We used to call them just like fleets. You didn't have a patch. You were frowned upon, especially if you were an officer. So I decided I can't be one of those officers. Right. I I've been in two years when I got a deployment or need my belt before I contract in ROTC. 00;10;58;24 - 00;11;19;06 Unknown But college don't pause for the second time and decided to find a unit deploy with and of course my buddy Thad, who gave me the gold and answered, how do I know? I had friends in the Oregon National Guard were about to deploy mobilize in the Middle East. So he gave me some contact information, reached out to them fast. 00;11;19;08 - 00;11;41;07 Unknown For five months I had gone through my three class school. So now I'm a plumber. Pipefitter in a vertical contracting team, and I'm in the Middle East. So you were intentional. I like it taking initiative, doing all those things that we're known for. So how did that go? I mean, was it was it as you expected? Definitely. I learned a lot. 00;11;41;10 - 00;12;05;28 Unknown It was an experience for sure. The first month that I finally it's the interstate transfer is, when you move from state to state in the guard. So asked is the abbreviation. I said Oregon. At first, you already had to face adversity. The company commander was like, hey, deployment is canceled. I was like, hold up. I spent three months trying to get here. 00;12;06;04 - 00;12;23;23 Unknown Now that I'm here, and I put school on pause, I've been out of school also for three months. You're telling me it's canceled so that long? It was an eight hour drive. No drilling on the Oregon coast, seaside area. Camp Alia and I was going to school in Pullman, Washington. So that whole eight hours back home, me and my buddy, and he was making no money because of the commute. 00;12;23;26 - 00;12;46;22 Unknown We were just disbelief. It was be quite as right that I've ever had experience. So I was like, what? What do I what I do now, like my plan is gone, right? So one of my E-4 buddies at the time from the Oregon National Guard, organic, his dad was lieutenant colonel within the Engineer Battalion. He shot me a message a week later and say, hey, my dad said, relax, something's coming down the pipeline. 00;12;46;25 - 00;13;10;06 Unknown I was like, what are you talking about? The original mission was to go into Afghanistan and help, you know, a downgrade and, close up some bases. So within a month, we have a new mission. We're going to Kuwait to help the process, reconstructing and building more transient billeting. So I was like, well, not the deployment I wanted, not a true combat experience. 00;13;10;09 - 00;13;31;23 Unknown I took it for what it was. Again, I tell people all the time, deployment isn't all about combat. It's about how you can adapt to the adversity and the problems you faced while on deployment. So I was like that. This is a good second job. You know, option. And fast forward, I'm in Kuwait three months later in November, I'm in Iraq. 00;13;31;24 - 00;13;59;28 Unknown I'm one of the first hundred soldiers back into Iraq to help combat ISIS in 2014. So that was, that experience definitely learned a lot being the first hundred in compared to deployments nowadays where there's sirens and warm towers, allowing you to, you know, find deep cover, there's nothing of that. When I was there the first time, right, it was just, oh, I think that was, that was incoming. 00;14;00;02 - 00;14;25;09 Unknown Learned a lot. I was just Lauren listed E-4 at the time. The detachment I got pushed into Iraq, we were supporting the active duty training. The, local Iraqis to help fight ISIS. So we built everything from building, places for soldiers to live, like many soldiers as well of ourselves. Offices, shoot houses, silhouettes where they practice a train on, as well as anything that they can think of. 00;14;25;16 - 00;14;42;24 Unknown We were we were working as much as we could as long as we had daylight. We had a warehouse. We're able to build things, prefab things, because the easiest way to do, a lot of the operations. And how long do you end up staying? Total deployment was nine months. I spent about four months of it in Iraq. 00;14;42;26 - 00;15;06;15 Unknown We were able to reopen the airstrip. We bring in the Apaches and and drones to help out with the surveillance. So it was, great, great mission work there. A lot of great people, active duty and guard, met one of my future mentors on that deployment was actually an IPL. Now we're both officers and, we're essentially equals out and I seek them. 00;15;06;21 - 00;15;24;25 Unknown His name is Mark Mallow. A lot for for advice on how to progress my military career and, and his guidance in general. So then after that, you come back. That had to have been an ordeal, I would imagine. Then if you're if you're going from Washington to Oregon, try to find fulfill your goal that you're trying to achieve. 00;15;24;26 - 00;15;47;02 Unknown You know, it's nice to have the acquaintances. So how important was the networking? I mean, it was clear to me when you were talking about it, but did that give you an idea of how important networking really is? Yes. And of military civilian career just in your civilian life in general, networking is vital to being successful. 00;15;47;05 - 00;16;08;15 Unknown Just those opportunities that I've had all the opportunities and had throughout my military career has been due to networking. I tell people all the time, especially in the National Guard, since we are, I'd say, part time, right? For the most part, it's about driving your own career. No one's gonna help you meet the goals that you want as much as you are right? 00;16;08;18 - 00;16;32;05 Unknown If you want to transfer to a new unit, you want a different MOS, seek out those opportunities. Sometimes if your your lowest level is not helping you out, networking with the right people. Find a way to find those people right. Use that network that's built in the military and try to seek those opportunities, and then present a plan to your your team leader, to your leadership saying, hey, this is my goal. 00;16;32;05 - 00;17;07;21 Unknown This is where I want to go. And here's the contact information. I write down some of those first steps versus leaving it all in the hands of your leadership. Yeah, that's that's super sound advice. And I like how you weaved in. It's applicable anywhere, you know, not just in service but in life in general. The more that you can do on your own with diligence and, the research and the effort you put into it to help people not have to do it all, that's important because it can be, you know, we we often look at ourselves trying to help everybody, but we don't have enough time to be able to do that. 00;17;07;21 - 00;17;25;13 Unknown So it's it's it's critical that we can think about how we can nudge it along and do some of that pre-work ahead of time. So I like I like how you're setting that up. Did you stay with that unit as you came back or did you now switch? I did, so I'd stay with the unit for probably another six months. 00;17;25;13 - 00;17;55;00 Unknown That's where I finally, my, I became, a sergeant in the Army after Charlie. After that, the unit disbanded. They did a big reorg. So the reorg happened. We went from 150 plus soldiers down to 52. So we became a detachment, a utility detachment. So they gave me the option. Hey, did you want to, you know, go ahead and stay here during on the, on the Oregon coast, the commute was really long and I was like, oh, I'll hang out for a little bit. 00;17;55;03 - 00;18;20;29 Unknown But then they the opportunity arose for me to go to infantry school. So I was like, infantry. Oh, man. This this is it. All right. I'm I'm taking the opportunity. So now that follow me August. So about a year after I came back from that deployment, I went to the infantry school and then found a unit again, my readiness NCO at that time say, hey, here's a list of every infantry unit in Oregon. 00;18;21;01 - 00;18;41;25 Unknown Find a unit that has an opening and I'll facilitate the rest. So again, kind of did the legwork myself to find a unit that I felt comfortable with besides me, and thrown in to a random unit. And then at the right I replaced, I became an infantry man. How long that take that took the switching units within within the state? 00;18;41;25 - 00;18;58;14 Unknown It's relatively quick. It was about a month. Sometimes with the paperwork hasn't completed yet, you can simply just start drilling with them on the year. One week in a month. And, you're still on the books of your organic unit, but they allow you to split. Train is what they call it. The training was a different unit. I'm assuming. 00;18;58;14 - 00;19;20;22 Unknown Did you go? You didn't go back to boot camp. You went, but you went to ITE for infantry school. Yeah, so slightly different in the guard we have for class. We have our own, schoolhouses with some within the state, some, we had to go to other states. So Oregon actually has its own infantry school. It's an accelerated program for like, most MOS is, it's usually about two weeks long. 00;19;20;24 - 00;19;41;27 Unknown So I went to Eastern Oregon real close to home. And you went to LA or, until Oregon with the old Chemical depot, down in that area. Spent two weeks there in the middle of August, 100 plus degrees, walk in the lanes, surviving the heat, sweating constantly. Had people heat carry carrying regularly just because of the heat. 00;19;41;29 - 00;20;05;05 Unknown They weren't used to it. So because we not only do they train National Guard, but those National Guard school houses also had the ability to train Active-duty personnel as well. So we had a slight mix of in-state, out of state and active duty personnel going to that school house. Got it with yours that that puts me at 20 right around 2016 2016. 00;20;05;08 - 00;20;33;11 Unknown Okay. Yeah. From from there. So now you've got basically three or more choices that you've been in. Correct. And so how does that work now that you've got those skills developed. And then what what do you what do you do with that as an E-5. So I think not in just not just in the military, but being well-rounded and knowing different aspects of the organization on how they all, intertwine and work together is a huge benefit. 00;20;33;14 - 00;21;09;17 Unknown If you look at most leaders throughout any corporation, they weren't siloed into one department the entire time rank. They were those who saw the opportunities in different aspects, right? Whether it be, you know, med suite with Oracle or OCI with Oracle. Right. They they or the medical side now, they branched out. They've learned a lot. So that benefited me a lot within, you know, being a new E-5 because when it comes to planning things, not only do you have the mindset or did I have the mindset of infantrymen, but I also had the mindset of, okay, if something breaks down right, how do we fix it? 00;21;09;17 - 00;21;32;17 Unknown How do I get the maintenance people here? I already know kind of what the main insight is thinking about how to do that when on a construction side, we need, I think, Bill, I'm your guy. I can help you build whatever you need built or I know people because within the state we all work together. So when it comes to annual training, there will be times that we have the engineers embedded with us or multiple different maintenance platoons embedded with us. 00;21;32;17 - 00;22;04;15 Unknown So again, tying back in that networking, networking is huge. In the guard. I've been in so many units in the Oregon Guard that every time I go to a big gathering, I was like, oh my gosh, I haven't seen this guy in four years. But here we are again. It's it's been, it's very beneficial. And I say not just military but civilian side as well to, to keep that network open and to if you have the opportunity to try different fields out within, within your organization, be open to new opportunities. 00;22;04;18 - 00;22;26;06 Unknown Yeah. Well said. And you're right. And that is the nice thing about it also is the camaraderie. It's developed over the years. And so you you have those connections and relationships from the past. And to see somebody that you haven't seen in a while, it's a good feeling. Right? Definitely. And, the main reason why I've been in for so long, some people are jaded, even the National Guard. 00;22;26;06 - 00;22;43;10 Unknown It's when we get them on two weeks a year. They say two weeks a year. It's never two weeks a year. It's usually more than that, with schooling and progression, career progression. But the main reason I say is to the people, every, every unit I go, I meet someone that I know I will probably be in contact with the rest of my life. 00;22;43;13 - 00;23;07;00 Unknown That's awesome. At which point now at 2016, you're in E-5, you got a couple of mosses, you got the network down, you're going around to different units. What happens the next several years that get that gets you to I don't know, come to Oracle. Let's backtrack just slightly. I was, after that first placement went back to Scott College right about a year and a half left. 00;23;07;02 - 00;23;30;05 Unknown Due to that ROTC down lineup, graduation wise. You know, I graduated early from ROTC or graduate early from the university. I was like, well, I would just but after, if I still have the urge to become an officer of the OCS. So 2016, I graduate, I get my first civilian career working for the Department Navy there in key, Port Washington, just next to the Bangor Naval Base. 00;23;30;07 - 00;23;49;15 Unknown The database administrator there, went to school for management, for making systems. So sorry. Working there. I seem to have pride myself in both my student career and military career towards a bigger cause which is supporting the military in some sort of facet. Or the government even at Oracle and part of answer ops, which is the government cloud. 00;23;49;15 - 00;24;14;21 Unknown So, you know, always looking to support the bigger cause. So do that for a couple of years. Enjoy my time there. But there's a saying the government work can be slow depending on what department you're in. Right. And that was true. I was on a project. It was where it's basically their justification site for the Navy and Marines, specifically aviation, but expanded to other facets of the Navy and Marines. 00;24;14;24 - 00;24;35;25 Unknown I was there and we were just sustainment. We weren't developing anything new. So database administrator, just maintaining that human eye going. And I graduated college wanting to change the world. I was like, well, this isn't what I, you know, expected, but it's a good career we're now. They had perks as well, being government. They assisted my, progression into getting my masters. 00;24;35;25 - 00;25;00;05 Unknown So I got my MBA while working for them. And then other right between the MBA period when I got accepted to the program, I thought about becoming an officer and the Oregon National Guard again, so that that urge to serve in a at a greater aspect was reinvested into my life and decided to look at my options. And OCS was the quickest way to commission. 00;25;00;08 - 00;25;23;03 Unknown So commission. And then a year later, I'm at I'm still at the I'm in the Navy working there for me on that. See, that's underneath the department Navy and decided I'm a master's now looking into managerial positions both in my civilian career and my military career. How do I line those so that I'm in management in both of aspects? 00;25;23;06 - 00;25;42;27 Unknown And I looked at my career trajectory within the DoD and the Department Navy and realized that it's a slow process, especially on the West Coast. We don't have the benefit of, you know, an enormous amount the managerial positions, as they do on the East Coast. So I was like, well, let me see what the public sector has. 00;25;43;00 - 00;26;00;19 Unknown And I'm at this point about five years in to working for the department, Navy. And, you know, you got the pension lined up, you have everything lined up ready and all your ducks in a row looking at potential retirement and the benefits of it. And I was like, well, civilian life seems okay. Let me, let me like it. 00;26;00;20 - 00;26;19;24 Unknown Let me reach out to some recruiters. And in that process, one of the managers from Oracle reached out to me. But hey, your your resume, your LinkedIn profile seems to see what we're looking for. Would you be interested in interviewing at this point? I'd been through a lot of interviews, turned down a few offers, just that it wasn't what I was looking for. 00;26;19;26 - 00;26;37;11 Unknown And, talking more to the Oracle recruiter and the manager and learning about the the part of Oracle that was going to be working for, which was on tour ops, and supporting the military and the government in some facet say, okay, this is kind of closely aligned to what I do now. I think I can behind this mission. 00;26;37;11 - 00;27;00;20 Unknown So I understood the mission little bit and, and how, I impacted that and allowed troops and government personnel and entities to still do their, their job full time. It's like I think I think I can do this. Then I interviewed with some of the employees that were there still are Oracle, and a lot of them came from military background, which I know was another perk for me. 00;27;00;20 - 00;27;23;12 Unknown Right. Having that, similar mindset and similar experience creates those bonds. And the transfer. I figured the transfer would not be as drastic going from, you know, the DoD Department, Navy and military experience to the corporate world. If a lot of my coworkers had a similar experience, so on through UPS was a really good fit for me. And a good home. 00;27;23;14 - 00;27;48;19 Unknown And that's when I joined to in 20th April 2022, as I finally made it to our goal site Reliability engineer. That's a good story. You did a lot in between 2016 and 2022. Yeah, I again, I try to take advantage of everything. I've always been pretty strategic with my my progression. While at the Department of Navy, I also was in a one year long leadership program for next generation leadership. 00;27;48;21 - 00;28;11;24 Unknown Just trying to advance myself and gain those skills, put those skills in my, my, my toolbox. But that day that I do become a manager, that I am ready to to lead and serve those that are part of my team well. And that tracks because early on, that's what you were you were trying to do is, is commit to something that's going to give you the opportunity for growth and career development and things, those types of things. 00;28;11;24 - 00;28;31;23 Unknown And so I think at this point, if I'm doing the math right, so over the course of a good ten years, give or take years, probably more close to 11, you were sniffing out the opportunities early on. Not only what was in front of you, but you were trying to identify a pathway that allows you to see a couple moves ahead that you can grow into. 00;28;31;24 - 00;28;58;23 Unknown Is that pretty accurate? Definitely. Yep. Every every time I made it to that next, the next step where I met my next goal, I was looking forward to the next time. Some people say 2020. The Covid year was a really bad year for a lot of people. I like to say that's probably one of my favorite years because I was tackling working full time, 40 hours plus a week, doing that, extensive leadership program through work, and graduated from OCS all at the same time. 00;28;58;25 - 00;29;15;28 Unknown So to me, December of 2020 was one of the best moments of my life. I had my freedom back. I was able to relax, something to do things on the weekends, the limited things that we were able to do because of the Covid. Yeah, it was it was a good year for me and then it opened up a lot of doors after that. 00;29;16;01 - 00;29;41;24 Unknown Yeah, it sounds like it. And congratulations on that, man. I, I appreciate the tenacity that you have in the drive and then putting it into action. I mean, that's obviously is one of the qualities that is common amongst, our community. But it you still appreciate it when you see it. Thank you. Yeah, you bet up to that point and, you know, maybe a couple weeks or a couple months inside of Oracle, you know, I'm making an assumption. 00;29;41;24 - 00;30;03;28 Unknown But did anything appear to be uniquely different than any place that you've been before? And as you, as you started to to learn more about the team you were on here, definitely coming over to Oracle the first few months, there's a lot of new technologies that I had to learn. I had been with the department maybe for quite some time and nothing real cutting edge at that time. 00;30;03;28 - 00;30;27;23 Unknown So I had a lot. Is is the big learning curve technically, especially with migrating to the cloud. When I first graduated college, the cloud was still relatively new. I've heard it at AWS, but at that point, Oracle Cloud was in a in its infancy. So it was a good learning curve. But I came in, I try to network with all my colleagues, had been there for a while. 00;30;27;26 - 00;30;46;16 Unknown I'd come in and, I got the moment I got access to the skiff. I was in there trying to learn what they're doing, looking like looking over the shoulder, just trying to grasp as much as I can grasp. Become a sponge, as they say. I just want to know how everything work and what I can do to get to be better and more prepared. 00;30;46;16 - 00;31;09;01 Unknown Once my clearance was fully approved and I can get hands on keyboard, was there, was there any concerns from your side on going into a full time role here and still serving in the guard a little bit? I did some research. Of course. That's one of the big things I did when I was looking to go into the surveying world is the military benefits. 00;31;09;03 - 00;31;37;00 Unknown And surprisingly, Oracle has one of the better programs for military personnel that are currently serving in the guard reserve. They allow us to do our annual training. Downy hiccup I've been since my time with Oracle. I've actually been away quite a bit for the military. I had to go to Basic Ops, the leadership course for the engineers, which was roughly six months, as well as some additional training, and they've been more than accepting and willing to work with me. 00;31;37;03 - 00;32;15;05 Unknown They understand the difficulties. And again, being part of on tour ops, where most people are, most managers are prior service. So I've worked with people for fire service. They know the the process, right. They know that sometimes they're called upon to do something greater than yourself. That you have no control over. You know, they're always there to help facilitate that and help me out with any of the HR issues that I that that arise from being, you know, acclimated to put on to the bench and then coming back in and being reintegrated into the corporation more than willing to work with me, around my schedule within the military. 00;32;15;08 - 00;32;53;16 Unknown And again, I just let them know ahead of time what, what my yearbooks like and if any of those dates will impact my my time in office. Yeah. I mean, sounds like a strong team that that not only is aware through. Well, one understanding what, what, the, the support that's in place that Oracle provides, but also just the, the firsthand understanding of what it's like to to hold the obligation of service and then merging the two together, the knowledge of the processes and the policies as well as the, the the process of what it's what what happens when a unit is needing to call you, either for your training or any other 00;32;53;16 - 00;33;11;00 Unknown deployments that may come up. That's that's great to hear. So after that, because now it's, it's three years still the same. You still have the same feeling as when you started. Do you talk a little bit about being activated and, then short notice of things right within the military that, everyone who served is familiar with. 00;33;11;03 - 00;33;27;24 Unknown I wanted to give Scott a shout out the first. You know, I broke the bad news to him. Hey, there's some training that's coming up that I have to go away for a little bit. I was just informed, you know, with less than a month notice, and the first thing wasn't. Hey, out, like, man, it's a bummer. 00;33;27;24 - 00;33;49;04 Unknown We're going to. We really need you here. It was. Hey, how's how's the family taking it? Right? He empathize with the situation and as good leaders do, I really appreciated that. And I just wanted to thank him for that. And then we kind of talked about how that's going to affect my time at Oracle. And then, what the next steps are for me coming back. 00;33;49;06 - 00;34;07;20 Unknown That's solid. I mean, that should be, you know, you'd like to believe that everybody's going to be able to have that type of response where puts the concern back on you and, and the care that needs to happen from that. Get your mind right, taking care of the the priorities in your life. And of course, the company is a concern. 00;34;07;20 - 00;34;34;11 Unknown And the obviously the customers and what we have to do here. But there's a balance in the prioritization comes through the the initial response. And so I'm glad to hear that that was the case. Yeah. And then to touch back to do I still have the same billing I do. Oracle's been very helpful throughout this process, allowing me to serve both sides and progress in both my career, military and civilian, with Oracle. 00;34;34;13 - 00;34;55;21 Unknown And, yeah, I still get Scott reaching out occasionally. Hey, does want to make sure everything's going good with the service as well as here at Oracle and making sure that I have a plan to progress. And three years and still loving it. And you're listening. I know you can't see it, but he's got a smile, Jesse smiling when he says this. 00;34;55;21 - 00;35;21;16 Unknown You can kind of just you can feel it as you're as you're listening to it. So I believe it. What now? You're three years in, you're always looking ahead for something else that allows you to know what are you going to be on for growth? What what aspirations do you have at this point? So within Oracle, the goal would be eventually to land a managerial position. 00;35;21;18 - 00;35;39;21 Unknown And that's that's been kind of my dream for the last couple of years on the human side. Got my MBA thinking about how the system, you know, the progression naturally there's there may be some opportunities in the near future. I do express my, you know, my wants. So I know it's been it's been heard and people are listening. 00;35;39;21 - 00;36;03;22 Unknown So one day I'll be there. And then on the military side, I'm looking at company command here within the next year. So that's that's another big step. And any officers, especially army officers time is, leading an entire company, planning the future for that company. What what training looks like, if there's any missions coming up, as in the guard we have, you know, we serve two missions. 00;36;03;22 - 00;36;30;17 Unknown We serve our state and our and our nation. And, we are frequently called upon for both. So making sure that we're ready to assist in both facets, whether it's national level, overseas deployment or within the state, because the Oregon and Washington, whatever island fires. So that comes about every year yet to maintain that certification and, and, make sure you're ready to answer any sort of natural disaster or any state need. 00;36;30;20 - 00;36;51;27 Unknown And so which state is the unit in that you're serving now? So I'm still in the Oregon National Guard. Again, I touched a base earlier about people right. Me being in the Oregon Guard for that deployment, I met a lot of people. And after we were dismantled, we we all went in different ways, different units. And I come back to running into them occasionally. 00;36;52;00 - 00;37;11;12 Unknown They're all the other units that I've been a part of. And the reason I'm still in the Oregon garden, commuting up to six hours once a month for drill is the people you know, I've made those bonds, and that's why I'm still driving to get down there and to work with those people and, good rapport. So I'm out of Oregon. 00;37;11;14 - 00;37;38;20 Unknown Got it solid team. Right team. Yes. Devin. All right. Jesse, any any final thoughts for anybody listening that you want anybody to hear if you're a service member and you're not part of Maven, come join Maven. Maven doing great things. Just, one big thing that I love Maven does. I love being physical. Physical activity is one of my hobbies. 00;37;38;23 - 00;37;59;03 Unknown So the Travis Manning Foundation right to the 29 was the chat as many and what I was, a gym host here recently. So I got a bunch of my military buddies, over the weekend, and, we had a good turnout, and we supported the Manning Foundation also back in, for 911, they did. The Rock also had a group of military people, and I, we can do that. 00;37;59;03 - 00;38;26;00 Unknown So, there's a lot of opportunities within Maven at Oracle to progress the career network. Again. Networking. Right. It's been the underlying theme of this, this interview. So consider network whether it's within Maven or just in Oracle itself, if you're a reservist in the National Guard and you're worried about your career progression, both, an oracle and a military, I'd say don't be too, too worried about it. 00;38;26;02 - 00;38;49;11 Unknown Oracle has a good program in place to assist us to move forward in both sides. Just make sure you talk to both leadership, military and civilian, to get a better understanding of how that looks so they can assist you in any way that's needed. And if you're a veteran who is no longer serving here at in Oracle and part of Maven, and you're interested in joining the Oregon National Guard, let me know. 00;38;49;14 - 00;39;09;09 Unknown We have, low recruitment numbers at this time, but we do this cool of being called guard for a day where you come out and relive your experience as a service member. And usually we make sure those days are when you do something fun, like white wine, helicopter style. All right. I'm not even mad at you. That was that was not shameless at all. 00;39;09;09 - 00;39;25;24 Unknown And for for the Maven plug. I didn't ask him to do it. He did it on his own. And then again, he's smiling. You can. You can feel the smile through years as you're listening. All right, Jesse, well appreciate you. Thanks for taking a minute. I know it was last minute and you made it happen. Very grateful for you and your service. 00;39;25;24 - 00;39;47;16 Unknown And I speak on behalf of all of us. We are thankful for everything that you're doing and anybody else that's out there in the reserve guard serving and going on your temporary duty, whatever. It's a deployment or training or anything like that, you know, always keep moving forward. So appreciate you. We'll look forward to seeing you soon. And next time we're in Seattle, we'll get together and have some coffee and maybe go for a run. 00;39;47;18 - 00;40;08;04 Unknown Definitely, yeah. Do you have any? If anyone has questions about how the, you know, being activated and working at Oracle, you know, feel free to reach out to me on, on the Oracle email and then, LinkedIn, if they want to talk about how reservists and guard life interacts with Oracle. Absolutely. So I'll put their contact information for our LinkedIn. 00;40;08;04 - 00;40;23;15 Unknown And then any other information you want to share offline, you can send it over and I'll put it in the podcast description so they can reach out if there's any more questions Chris. All righty one. Keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

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Purpose Forged: Pat Smith, Oracle Principal Security Engineer and Army Veteran 50:50

16 днів тому50:50

50:50

We explore Pat’s journey, rooted in strong family influence and an innate drive to pursue her goals without hesitation. Pat opens up about her path to self-discovery, shaped by a deep sense of self-awareness and an unrelenting competitive edge that pushes her to rise above every challenge she faces. Pat highlights the value of thoughtful observation—knowing when to pause, evaluate, and listen before speaking or acting. Whether you're navigating a career pivot or working to better understand your own capabilities, Pat’s insights will inspire you to think more deeply about identity, preparation, and how to effectively translate your existing skills into new opportunities. She encourages others to research what’s required for the next role, embrace continual learning, and take bold steps toward their goals with clarity and confidence. https://www.linkedin.com/in/patsmth/ https://www.oracle.com/veterans/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;33;04 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by Pat Smith, Oracle principal security engineer and Army veteran, where we explore Pat's journey rooted in strong family influence and an innate drive to pursue her goals without hesitation. 00;00;33;08 - 00;00;56;28 Unknown Pat opens up about her path to self-discovery. Shaped by a deep sense of self-awareness and unrelenting competitive edge that pushes her to rise above every challenge she faces. Grounded in possibility and resilience, Pat highlights the value of thoughtful observation, knowing when to pause, evaluate, and listen before speaking or acting. Her ability to take on tough, high stakes tasks reflects a rare combination of courage, adaptability and solution oriented thinking. 00;00;56;28 - 00;01;18;07 Unknown Pat doesn't shy away from discomfort. Instead, she leans into it, earning the trust of those around her by demonstrating competence, reliability, and strong commitment to results. Whether you're navigating a career pivot or working to better understand your own capabilities, Pat's insights will inspire you to think more deeply about identity, preparation and how to effectively translate your existing skills into new opportunities. 00;01;18;07 - 00;01;36;11 Unknown She encourages others to research what's required for the next role, embrace continual learning and take bold steps towards their goals with clarity and confidence. This episode is a must listen for anyone who wants to lead with purpose, grow through challenge and be recognized as someone who delivers real impact. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. 00;01;36;11 - 00;01;55;16 Unknown Let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Pat's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Good morning Pat. How's it going? 00;01;55;18 - 00;02;16;24 Unknown Good morning. Going great. How about yourself? I'm doing all right. Thanks. Happy Monday. So funny thing, people say that. What do you think people say? Happy Monday. I don't know, because Monday everybody usually dreaded after the weekend. Right. Yeah. They want their weekend to be a little longer. A little bit longer. Yeah. So. So we talk about the weekends and coming to work. 00;02;16;25 - 00;02;48;01 Unknown You know we're going to talk a little bit about you and then what you do. And before we started recording for everybody out there, I asked Pat how it was going. And I guess the Monday already started. So there's a lot of a lot of things going on already. And it's interesting if you, as you hear Pat talk about her, not only your experiences here at Oracle, what she does, and you probably understand how things keep moving and, what we do for our customers and for the for the company and supporting the effort of what whatever the collective organizations do. 00;02;48;03 - 00;03;07;17 Unknown It'll be clear. So. But before we get into all of that, Pat, would you tell us a little bit about Pat? Good morning everyone. My name is Pat Smith. I've been an Oracle roughly three years. I am former military Army go Army storm. I served in the Army and an army reserve as well. I went to Germany. 00;03;07;18 - 00;03;30;03 Unknown I'm in a different places. I ended up deploying to Southwest Asia as well. And, once I got out of the military, I started working for the Department of Defense. I work for DoD. I've, been a member of Homeland Security for. I work for U.S. cert, and I also work for the, FBI. Before retiring from the FBI. 00;03;30;03 - 00;03;53;22 Unknown I go on into the civilian sector. Boom there. In a nutshell, all right, all, have a good day. No thanks for that. And so you've done a lot. And so for all of us out there, sometimes I learn things because I, I would like to have, the, the guest share for the first time some of their experiences. 00;03;53;22 - 00;04;14;23 Unknown And so some of these things I'm learning for the first time. So let's, let's talk about, why you joined and, you know, wherever you grew up, in kind of the circumstances you found yourself in to find yourself in, to be able to, you know, planned on, I think I'll join the service in why Army? So, I came from a, military family. 00;04;14;23 - 00;04;33;28 Unknown I guess you could say my father was Air Force. I I'm the youngest of six, and all my brothers and sisters had gone into the military. Some were officers, some were enlisted, and I graduate. I was in high school, and I was like, well, to get some little extra money over the summertime, I'll go into the reserves. 00;04;33;28 - 00;04;50;13 Unknown It's a couple hundred dollars for a weekend out of a month, you know, to go to drill and I'll have something in my pocket. So for me, it was just like, okay, and then it'll teach me the discipline and my thing about discipline and knowing how to do stuff on my own, transitioning from being a high school student. 00;04;50;15 - 00;05;11;20 Unknown So eventually having to be out there on my own in college. So I went into the reserves. When I was in, 11th grade, my mom had to sign because I was too young to sign for myself. I was underage, and, I went under what they called deferred entry. So one year I did basic training. And the next year, when I was a senior, after my senior year, I did my ATC training. 00;05;11;22 - 00;05;36;03 Unknown So I did that for I was in the reserves for about four years. I went I went to Louisiana Tech University, where I majored in biomedical engineering. I stayed in in college through college, and then I'm from Louisiana, and I was like, okay, I want to get out. I want to see, I want to travel and I don't want to pay for, but I want to be able to still be able to maintain a lifestyle and take care of myself and not have to call home. 00;05;36;03 - 00;06;01;24 Unknown Mommy, daddy, can you send me money? So I was like, well, most family I can go travel for a couple of years, do what I want to do and come on. So that's what I do. I got into the Army, I enjoyed the Army. The Army was a great experience. It taught me a lot. Definitely discipline, definitely taught me a view of dealing with a lot of different people from different places, different personalities, which was really a very good experience for me. 00;06;01;26 - 00;06;26;08 Unknown And after a while I ended up staying. I ended up getting married, having two kids and going out. Not for the honeymoon, I'm guessing now, and off and on and 11th grade. How was that? How was that experience on campus in high school when you chose to do that? And was it common in the high school that you were you were going to to where other kids were were choosing that? 00;06;26;10 - 00;06;42;20 Unknown I didn't know anybody personally that had that had gone into the reserves. I just checked into it. I thought about it. I check into it. Like I said, coming from a lot of my brothers and all my brothers and sisters being in and my father being in, I was like, hey, it doesn't seem too bad. It seems like a good benefit. 00;06;42;20 - 00;07;02;23 Unknown And plus I would get the money for to help out with my college education as well. So it wasn't intimidated to be the youngest person there, one of the youngest people there walking into basic training, first time really being by myself where there's no family member with me, having to go out there in the world and listen and do all this stuff, it was an intimidating. 00;07;02;23 - 00;07;21;09 Unknown But once I got into the flow of everything and understanding, I really enjoyed it. Got it. And how was how was it breaking it up and over the, the summers to, to go to boot camp and then it, how did that did you learn anything from the first time you went in and then when you went to it? 00;07;21;11 - 00;07;40;10 Unknown I think that session, it made it a to me. It made it a little bit better because I got that chance to kind of like decompress from the intensity of being in boot camp. And, you know, all the high energy you have to run to get places faster. Got to be here on time and all that structure and just all the little basic training is a little intense. 00;07;40;12 - 00;08;00;03 Unknown And then having that time to go back, relax, reset, going to drills still during that year on and then go on to I, I t was a little bit with way easier to me and it wasn't the physical aspect. Basic training that I found to be, you know, stressful because I'd always like, ran track, play basketball. 00;08;00;03 - 00;08;16;26 Unknown I was already a athletic person. So the physical part wasn't me. It was just getting used to the structure. And you have to be here on time. If you all the time you're late. So you have to beat everybody 15 minutes early. You have to make sure, you know, and the rushed nature of things and the precision of things getting used to that. 00;08;16;26 - 00;08;37;20 Unknown But once I locked in, I was good. So when I went to I t I didn't, I had the time to okay, I got this. I had everything organized in my mind how I knew was going to be. So it flowed really easy. Got it. So you slid in there that you were an athlete. How did how did that competitive nature contribute to the ease as you're going through? 00;08;37;22 - 00;08;52;28 Unknown Not only that, but even after that, how did that contribute to the choices you've made? I always want to be at the front of the line. I was not going to let anybody outrun me. Got it? I had the, I always shot to be okay. I want to be. If I'm not number one, I'm going to be in the top five. 00;08;52;28 - 00;09;12;09 Unknown I want to be at the top of the list. I want to, and but that's. That was me even before I went into the middle there just kind of have a competitive spirit and more so not with other people, but to outdo myself if I did, if I did a certain score one time, okay, we're going to have to work to do better the next step, the next time and to just constantly improve. 00;09;12;09 - 00;09;35;29 Unknown And I, I take that into just everyday life. I want one of the things I always tell my kids is I want to be better today than I was yesterday. Every day. And it doesn't have to be. Everybody thinks when you say something like that, it has to be something groundbreaking or something like life changes. No. If you learn a new skill, if you learn something about your job that you didn't know yesterday, you've improved. 00;09;36;01 - 00;09;55;01 Unknown If you learn a new vocabulary word that you didn't know yesterday, you've made some type of progress. But just make sure that you're progressing in some way every day to improve upon yourself and not let yourself just stay stagnant and get complacent with and comfortable with where you are. That I like that, that that's a hard one because you you nailed it. 00;09;55;04 - 00;10;15;04 Unknown You know, a lot of times people think they got to go big to to have that feeling of, of progress or success or an achievement. And you're right, the little things and I'm, I appreciate your perspective on that because it is sometimes misguiding. And then we, you know, might hesitate. Everybody thinks that they have to they think they have to change the world. 00;10;15;04 - 00;10;35;22 Unknown But you can change the world one step at a time. That's like the saying they always say you eat an elephant one step at a time, and all the little steps add up to that monumental thing and lead you to, towards that goal that you want one step at a time. Yeah, I like that. So we're going to put a pin in that one too because we'll come back to that okay. 00;10;35;25 - 00;10;59;15 Unknown Because because it is it is it is a mindset. And somewhat of sometimes a conflict for for those that get used to having to achieve even that at some point, the conditioning of even the little things that build up the attention to detail. And, you know, if it's taken out of context of what you're trying to achieve for goals, life goals, professional goals, career goals, educational goals, whatever it is, you could there could be a misstep. 00;10;59;17 - 00;11;23;03 Unknown Yeah. So, so we'll come back to that. So biomedical engineering. Yes. Okay. I had a minor. Computer science. That's amazing. What, what why that what was was there anything leading up to that that get. You had the curiosity? I was a nerd at heart. I got my first home computer. I'm not going to say what it is because I'll date myself. 00;11;23;06 - 00;11;51;14 Unknown I got my first computer at home. Computer. And I fell in love. And I just became all the type of nerdy kid, the popular little nerdy kid that I love computers, I love technology. Ever since I got my first computer and biomedical engineering, I became really. I wanted to help people with computers, and I thought medical would be a great place to help people, to help engineer something that could save somebody's life or make their lives better. 00;11;51;22 - 00;12;25;11 Unknown So that's why I chose it. Got it. Any specific circumstance that had you specifically planned on that, that that you envisioned then and then chose that path, or was it just a general focus area that somehow you were influenced by? I had, I had one of my grandparents killed. They started to fail and I started thinking about people that have things like kidney failure and heart failure and have to be on these different types of like, maybe Dallas machines or different machines that will help them to improve their lives. 00;12;25;11 - 00;12;52;18 Unknown And so that kind of like got me to start thinking, I would love to be a part of people who could engineer stuff like that, to be able to help people to better their lives or correct conditions, possibly that they ran into. Got it. All right. Moving through this, because you laid down a lot. You so so you graduate college and then, help us see where your your mind's at. 00;12;52;18 - 00;13;13;24 Unknown Now, what direction are you pointing at that at that time, Burnout from education a little bit. Being under the guns with such an intense class schedule and just wanted to take the time out, and I wanted to travel, see the world. And I didn't want to pay for it. That's the bottom line. I don't want to pay for it. 00;13;13;26 - 00;13;36;07 Unknown So what job could I get at such a young age that I could go different places and I'll pay for the military? And so I said, okay, the military is great. Out is I didn't see any negative to being in the military because as long as you think with an open mind and don't put yourself in a box, you can turn stuff to your advantage. 00;13;36;10 - 00;13;57;29 Unknown And to me, the military had all the advantages of things that I want, I would have I will get paid. I will have a place to stay that I don't have to pay for. In the barracks, I get food, I stay in shape because I have to run every morning and I go to different countries. I can go to another country, I go to Germany, I can go to Korea, I can go to different places. 00;13;58;02 - 00;14;18;05 Unknown And so it was just it was just college burnout. Yeah. That's a combination I guess is like, well, yeah. So let's all expense paid for a career choice. Maybe. Exactly. What most did you end up? I ended up going and, math. And I ended up going into computers. Okay. When I was in the military and working in signal. 00;14;18;08 - 00;14;35;13 Unknown And so I ended up being the ESL. So when I found out, okay, you went to college for this. Okay. Well, you're going to be a computer person. So I was always doing everything, you know, the the person in the room when you mess up your stuff for your computer. Well, I can't get this done making sure before they call the information system cybersecurity, shall I say, is the new term. 00;14;35;16 - 00;14;54;08 Unknown It was information system security, where you secure it, make sure everything was secure via scans of all the systems going around, making sure all the systems of update. And then once 911 hit, the big cyber word came out. I was like, well, we were doing that before cyber became the buzzword, but now that's the buzzword for it. 00;14;54;08 - 00;15;13;17 Unknown So I've been so I'm kind of dating myself, but, yeah, I was doing it before with the big cyber word. Got it. So I'll help you with the dating yourself and I'll, I'll get in front of that for you. So I remember when I was at Fort Hood, the there are our tech and I forgot his name. 00;15;13;17 - 00;15;37;04 Unknown But our tech for at the time where I was working, he had access to windows. Oh yeah. Yeah. And so the IBM PC, something or other. 386 yeah. That thing with the sloppy disks. Right. So yeah. I, you know, I needed to work and I wanted to work from home and I had one and it, he sit here and he gave me it, but he didn't know what kind of computer I had, but. 00;15;37;04 - 00;15;59;16 Unknown So it was a shot in the dark. It. I literally stayed up, I don't know, 12 hours trying to install that on, on the machine. I never I was never successful because I didn't understand what was going on, but right told me what to do. So yeah, I remember those days when you had, software, hardware, sometimes incompatible issues where you just think it should work and you hoped it would, and sometimes it it didn't do as you did. 00;15;59;23 - 00;16;25;29 Unknown Exactly. Yeah, but that's the fun stuff. Figuring it out, making it work. Absolutely, absolutely. But you have to have the background and I guess the curiosity, like you did right? Okay. So how long how long were you in the Army? Ten years. Ten years. I end up getting out after a few years after my deployment, I came back with a condition that was that I got while I was over there. 00;16;26;01 - 00;16;45;24 Unknown And I ended up being medical out because I couldn't stay, and not because I didn't want to, but because my condition wouldn't allow, was that sorry to hear that? Was that that must have been a conflict. I mean, because you just said you didn't you didn't necessarily want to get out, but you had to get out. So how did that how did that for you? 00;16;45;26 - 00;17;03;06 Unknown It was hard because I felt like I didn't end on my terms. And I'm one of those people. I want to end it on my terms, if at all possible. And it was hard, but then it was the understanding where I had acquired a life threatening situation where just because of the medication I took, made me ineligible to stay in. 00;17;03;11 - 00;17;25;01 Unknown So there was I really had no option to stay in because the medication that would save my life made me ineligible to stay in the military. Well, I can't imagine it was a hard adjustment just knowing that, okay, you're dealing with something that's a big deal. So what I what happened? I ended up coming back with a it's a blood disorder and I just throw random blood clots at any time. 00;17;25;01 - 00;17;47;26 Unknown I can be okay one minute and then I can just get a random blood clot anywhere. And because I had to be on blood thinning medication, it's automatically disqualifier for me. At that time in the military, it was hard dealing with because you're dealing with multiple things, you're dealing with coming back from war. You're dealing with coming back and finding out you have a medical condition that now impacts you for the rest of your life. 00;17;47;29 - 00;18;06;25 Unknown And then you're told that you can't stay in and do your job. So it was a lot to deal with, a lot of disappointment that I had to go through and deal with, amongst other things. Not, like I said, not getting out on my own terms. Okay, Pat, what are you going to do now? How how am I going to manage this disorder when I get out and everything? 00;18;06;27 - 00;18;25;23 Unknown But then I just had, after Phyllis, I guess. Sorry for myself for a smart, had to say. Okay. What's best for you, what's best for your family, what's best for your kids, and how are you going to make the most out of this situation? Because it's easy to lay down and give up. But I'm not a quitter. 00;18;25;23 - 00;18;51;06 Unknown So I fought and I found my path. And then let me do Oracle, I love it. It's somewhat of a conflict because it's it's, you know. So how how are you how's the fight going now? The fight has actually gone do it. I've actually been, my condition is actually really stabilized a lot. So now I don't have as much battles because initially I was in the hospital at least 2 or 3 times a year. 00;18;51;09 - 00;19;08;26 Unknown For extended stays because of it. And I almost died a couple of times, but I fought through. But now I'm in a more stable, the more the most stable, honestly, I've ever been since I've had the condition, which I'm thankful to God for. So everything is actually going really well right now. It's good. 00;19;08;26 - 00;19;18;03 Unknown Dear. Good to hear. I'm glad to have you here. Thank you. Glad I'm still here. 00;19;18;05 - 00;19;47;19 Unknown All right. Maybe for a long time. Yeah. Yes, yes. Here's to that. Okay. So then, so then you get out and now you've, you worked and you talked about three organizations Homeland security, U.S cert and FBI. So let's let's listen to what you what you did. So once I got out I actually the crazy thing about it is I was actually flying home when the Twin Towers that I was in Germany, that's where I got out. 00;19;47;19 - 00;20;09;03 Unknown I was in Germany, were scared to fly home on 911, and we got the news, and I was in the, hotel on base on Rahman Air Base. And, we saw it hit and we were out processing. So we found out that all the airlines were on the ground. The only one that they would let fly back into the United States was Lufthansa. 00;20;09;06 - 00;20;32;23 Unknown And we managed to get on that flight the next day in the chaotic airport, which was filled with everybody from the United States, seemed like they were trying to get home. And I remember being in the airport with my husband and my two kids who were about to turn one, and one was three at this airport attendant. She was like, hold out, hold my hand and don't let go. 00;20;32;23 - 00;20;50;10 Unknown I'll get you through the crowd because you have small kids. And she literally got us through those hundreds and hundreds of people, that car people, and got us to where we could check in so we would be sure to make the flight. So I definitely I'm grateful to her for doing that. And then we kissed the ground when we got back home. 00;20;50;12 - 00;21;10;06 Unknown Oh yeah. And then after that I went to, we're stationed in Hawaii. So I went to Hawaii, where we were at school for our airbase. I got a job working as a federal employee on school for avarice. I started out in chief for, working for the lieutenant colonel there. And then I went to G6 and eventually to G2. 00;21;10;08 - 00;21;33;14 Unknown I worked on Schofield for a while that I moved to, Fort Shafter, where I work with, GCS Global Command and Control Systems for a few years. And then we moved, to Fort Gordon, Georgia, and I worked at the Wounded Warrior Division that they had just, stood up, work there. And then we were doing another move to Virginia. 00;21;33;17 - 00;22;01;02 Unknown So I said, okay, I saw some DHS jobs. I said, okay, I'm applying. I don't know if I'm a get in, I'll apply. So I pay off the NHS and miraculously, before I left Fort Gordon already had an interview to go into Homeland Security and get the job with U.S. cert. But in between this time, I had an unfortunate medical incident that almost took my life, and I was in the hospital for a long time, and I physically, I had a blood clot that was so catastrophic I couldn't walk. 00;22;01;02 - 00;22;19;13 Unknown When I got out of the hospital, I physically couldn't walk, so it took me a while to go from not being able to walk to walking with a walker to a pain, to eventually rehabbing myself. And that happened over probably like a year and a half time where I couldn't just walk on my own. I got to Homeland Security. 00;22;19;13 - 00;22;36;17 Unknown I wanted to U.S. cert. I was on their detection division, so we did things like write the scripts and everything that went into the sensors. We monitor things around the world. I can't say too much about what it was. And when the new center that they had opened for Homeland Security, I actually got to meet Janet Reno myself. 00;22;36;19 - 00;22;59;07 Unknown But it's okay. All right. Janet Reno and President Obama actually came to the facilities when we did the ribbon cutting and everything. So that was a great experience. I work there and for I was there for, I think for like five years and DHS for like five years. And one day I was, came home and I got a call and, he said, this is Charles Gibson from FBI. 00;22;59;07 - 00;23;13;29 Unknown And I was like, stop, right, call on me. I thought it was a prank call because I had never applied for a job at FBI. So I didn't understand how they got my information. And while I was getting a call. So I thought it was a joke. And he was like, no, I'm serious, I'm not joking. And I was like, okay. 00;23;14;02 - 00;23;41;03 Unknown And then he said, I have a job that I think you'd be wonderful for. Are you interested? And I said, oh, I'm saying to myself, of course, is the FBI. Most people would love to get it. So I went in and I interviewed and I stayed at the FBI for about four years at the FBI, worked on the, Cloud First project, working with a lot of cloud vendors to help FBI move their things into the cloud and become more cloud friendly. 00;23;41;09 - 00;24;04;23 Unknown I was over I actually wrote there, cloud security guy and help, for FBI and help wrote some stuff for the secret working, on the, secret site on the cloud and things as well for them. So a lot of, regulations, documentations, a lot of the cyber, Tiger teams like that did the, high three for In the Cloud. 00;24;04;24 - 00;24;32;23 Unknown I was on that Tiger team that produced those high three, requirements. And then, after that was done, that was, that project took a while, a few years because it was big getting them in. And then I said, okay, I want to go see what the civilian sector has to offer. I don't necessarily have to get totally away from government, but I want to work for a civilian company because with the military, everybody knows everything is a little bit more restrictive on what you can and a little less innovative in some ways, not less innovative. 00;24;32;23 - 00;24;56;15 Unknown But there's just more tape for we Go too deep is what's high three. So they're the standards for the FedRAMP. The high three standards are standards that have to be met in order for a cloud service provider to be able to process classified government documents on the system within that cloud. Got it. Did you ever find out how your name got in front of the FBI agent? 00;24;56;15 - 00;25;17;07 Unknown According to this day, I don't know why you didn't ask. They didn't tell me, okay? They didn't tell me. That's great. Yeah. I mean, your brand obviously preceded you at that point or somebody or somebody spoke it somewhere. So yeah, it ended up there. So I mean, you just said it and that's a good one. So it stood out to me. 00;25;17;07 - 00;25;58;18 Unknown So as you're working through the choices you're making and the effort you're putting in and the results that are the outcomes that have occurred based off of what you were doing, how was that working as far as building a reputation, building your brand, getting your name to be recognized as somebody that will be top of mind when they have an open position and they call you, did it ever occur to you, while you were making the choices and doing these jobs, performance, taking on the difficult projects that everybody goes away from seeing, seeing the whole I try to see the whole picture and see what the holes are in it. 00;25;58;20 - 00;26;20;13 Unknown So for instance, like when I went to FBI and I walked in, they had the first project that President Obama had signed for federal organizations going to for almost two years. But because it was so huge, nobody, nobody either wanted to or they didn't have a person that was willing to or with the knowledge to do it because nobody had dealt. 00;26;20;16 - 00;26;42;11 Unknown I guess, with security in that form of going to the cloud or didn't want to learn it. So I took it on and I said, okay, I'll make it happen and made it happen. So it's thinking of I try to think outside the box, okay, my job says this, but my job goes into how does it connected to the other things around me or what the organization does. 00;26;42;14 - 00;27;05;23 Unknown And that's how you see the holes in what you might currently have within your organization. What do I connect to? What is the goal of what what we have to accomplish for an organization? And I think about taking on those things where you have to go and and I had to go and, have meetings with people at the, Google's at the Microsoft, you know, at the Verizon Cloud people. 00;27;05;23 - 00;27;23;10 Unknown I had to deal heavily with Amazon and go to talk to them. Just being willing to put myself out there and be like, okay, I'll take it on, you know, and just not limiting yourself because I found that a lot of people, it's not that they can't do it, is that restriction they put on themselves for the fear of doing what if I mess up? 00;27;23;17 - 00;27;45;00 Unknown Okay, if you mess up, correct it and move on. Most great, lessons I learned were when you make a misstep and then you come up with a, a good comeback. That's better than what you thought before. But a lot of people just limit themselves in their mind because it's all about how you think. It's a mindset now is that it absolutely is mindset, and I love that. 00;27;45;02 - 00;28;13;08 Unknown So the versatility of being able to see things that maybe sometimes others aren't focused on or yeah, you just have what was on the sports. Right. The you see the field of play. You're seeing that is that is that something that you had a stronghold on early in your life, or is that something that just developed over time with your experiences up to that point, to where it refined your ability to see things that others weren't paying attention to? 00;28;13;10 - 00;28;39;18 Unknown I think it came from my parents when I grew up. I was always that really quiet, observing kid. I was a kid that read the encyclopedia and dictionary over the summer just for just for kicks. So that's how nerdy I was. I still am. So it was just always being, always knowing and understanding from my parents. The loudest person in the room is not necessarily the person that knows the most or has the greatest insight. 00;28;39;21 - 00;28;56;26 Unknown Before you speak, take time to step back and hear everything and look at the full picture. And my parents always taught me that, so I always live that way. I don't, and I always tell people I don't speak up much in media initially because I'm trying to assess the room. I'm trying to assess what what's going on and get a complete picture. 00;28;56;29 - 00;29;22;18 Unknown And then that way, in my mind, I can say, okay, well, there's a whole here are this gold with that. And it gives me a clearer picture and a better understanding. And I think that's why I can see the holes. Did you ever encounter anything that that was misunderstood as someone that would just sit back and be quiet meetings and it would be mistaken as some other behavioral component, or, you know, those types of things to where you'd miss out or I've never missed out. 00;29;22;18 - 00;29;41;02 Unknown But I think it initially when I initially do that for a few meetings, people think, well, she doesn't speak up until I open my mouth and I'll tell people, I say, I speak up, I say, but I like to speak with information and inform them to just speak, to be heard, because there's a lot of people speak because they like the sound of their voice. 00;29;41;04 - 00;30;05;02 Unknown That's another thing my parents taught me. Don't speak just to hear your own voice. When you speak, you need to have something to say. And so that's how I kind of got myself. It has it is never hurt me. And then once they work with me, they understand. It's like, oh, she's analyzing everything because I'm very analytical. She's analyzing and looking at everything, and then she's going to speak when she has the information because I don't want to misspeak and be misinformed. 00;30;05;09 - 00;30;27;10 Unknown But to me, that's worse than not speaking at all. Nice. It's probably considered, in my opinion, only my opinion a lost art. I agree the way the way that I believe, the way social media is influenced to feel like we have to, top somebody or, you know, pull out the more extreme now everything has to happen faster. 00;30;27;10 - 00;30;58;10 Unknown And in first, that it kind of interferes with the ability to have that innate ability to do what you just said sit back, observe, absorb, you know, watch things as they occur and then get to a part to where it matters to speak, speak with purpose and then the business sector. And I'll take Oracle as an example to me, like there are a lot of cloud service providers before Oracle came out, right, Amazon hit the ground run and got the first thing with the government, and they were locked in with the government for a while, and they were the big dog with the government. 00;30;58;12 - 00;31;20;02 Unknown But Oracle came up with their cloud and they paid attention. Oracle did the exact same thing that I do, but at a on a corporate scale. Oracle sat back. They watched. They watched the mistakes that others made. They watched with a hole in the gap for an oracle, came in and failed. So they did exactly that. It's almost like a corporate strategy or, you know, a strategy that businesses use. 00;31;20;04 - 00;31;37;23 Unknown You don't have to be first. Look at Apple. Apple, they don't have to be first. Other companies do stuff, but they stand there and they're $1 trillion company because why they let you go make the mistake. Then they come back and they find the holes that you missed. They they correct your mistake and make a even better product. 00;31;37;25 - 00;32;00;14 Unknown The sound bite. This is I'm biased, but not if you know. You know, you nailed it. A lot of times people will say, and I'm absolutely not an expert in this part, but it's just an observation that you don't find that Oracle goes out loud, right. And the smart, you know, the types of marketing is very intentional and deliberate and things like that. 00;32;00;14 - 00;32;23;02 Unknown So, you know, a lot of times people I mean, well, let me ask this. Did you know about Oracle before? Oh yeah. I'm a nerd. Yeah. Yeah, that's probably a dumb question of course. Yeah. But Oracle is the quiet kid in the room. Oracle was the quiet kid in a room observing. They were there, observed in one during their analysis paying attention and that everybody was like, okay, they're quiet, so they must not be doing anything. 00;32;23;02 - 00;32;47;15 Unknown But Oracle was working in the background. They weren't the loud kid on the bus saying, yeah, I'm doing this. And they were like, they're the quiet kid taking notes, being observant. And then they just moved in silently. Got it. So FBI change. Yeah. Now you're looking at the next move, KPMG. And when I worked for KPMG, what made you go there? 00;32;47;18 - 00;33;18;21 Unknown They had a job that was really interesting to me. That I wanted to do, I wanted to move out into the civilian sector and make a difference there. But knowing that because of my clearance level that of course I was going to be involved in government stuff as well. Still, which was fine. So I moved to KPMG and I was with KPMG for like three years, and I left and I went to another cyber company that was veteran owned, and what pulled me to that was because it was better or no, it's called Invictus. 00;33;18;24 - 00;33;35;25 Unknown And I went there because it was better and on. And I like the fact that it was veteran owned. They came in, they offered me another position that ended, I had a contract that worked with Dia them worked on some projects, and they had the contract. And so I ended up getting laid off during the Covid for like seven months. 00;33;35;27 - 00;34;01;11 Unknown So in between that seven months, once again, don't know how I got a call from Oracle Recruiter. I don't know where that came from either. I imagine it was probably my LinkedIn profile. I could say. And they reached out. Her name was Ryan and she was very, very upfront with what Oracle was looking for. She was very upfront with the process, the amount of interviews, and Oracle was getting their certification during that time, she said. 00;34;01;11 - 00;34;25;19 Unknown So she said, I'm gonna be honest with you, we're going under this so our interviewers might be busy. It might take a while, but if you're just hold on, we're serious about the offer, basically. But just let me know if you decide to take something or if another organization is looking for you. And at the time, I was actually the, Situation Room at the white House, I was under consideration for that position, and I actually interviewed for it. 00;34;25;19 - 00;34;47;07 Unknown I actually got it. And I told Ryan and I thought about I got it and I accepted it, and I was like, okay, white House Situation Room Oracle. Then I said, after I accepted it two days later, I, rescinded my acceptance because I wanted the opportunity. I saw in my mind the opportunity of Oracle being greater than working in the white House Situation Room. 00;34;47;09 - 00;35;03;07 Unknown I know that sounds crazy to a lot of people, because a lot of people will be like, why would you take why would you rescind the offer to the Situation Room? Because of its high bids. And you you get to do this, that and the other, and you're in this place as where all these political people and you'll be able to see this. 00;35;03;09 - 00;35;26;14 Unknown And that was an important to me. The thing about it is, if I'd work for all the big three letter organizations and partnerships with projects and things, so how does that benefit and how is that going to benefit my career going forward outside of that aspect? How was it going to grow me as an engineer? How is it going to grow me as a person in my skillset? 00;35;26;20 - 00;35;47;20 Unknown It wouldn't, but Oracle would. The Oracle would give me that ability to work on these different projects to expand my different horizons, to be to be able to work in stuff that like, generative AI are the new up and coming technologies where I wouldn't get that in a white House situation. I'd get what I've always been working on for the past several years for most of my life. 00;35;47;27 - 00;36;05;29 Unknown And the federal system. But Oracle gave me something different to actually go out into all civilian areas and access areas that I wouldn't be able to access. Working with the situation Room. Got it. So I was going to I was going to take a minute to go back to. I was like, well, yeah, your LinkedIn profile probably contributed to it. 00;36;05;29 - 00;36;31;27 Unknown But we had some pretty good recruiters also, and it seemed, it seems though, that, although that is true, that is more interesting thing to cover real quick. And you landed on this and I love that you did, because the fact is, it's what you want. And I think that if we kind of peek into transition in the components and you've transitioned several times, so not just from the military, but even for that, you know, you transition from high school mindset into a military environment. 00;36;32;04 - 00;36;51;24 Unknown It's a different mindset to come back to high school, to go back to the military and then go to college. And then, I mean, all of that shift in focus and attention. It's no wonder you just ended that statement with, this is why I chose this path, is because it's going to give you the things that you want, and you landed on that. 00;36;51;26 - 00;37;19;20 Unknown How did you land on that specifically to know exactly where you can assert, probably arguably, just for context, two of the most significant choices, one could ever have at the white House or private sector. For me, I looked at the the long haul. And when I say that, I mean the long haul. For your security as a person, what do you want as a person? 00;37;19;23 - 00;37;37;29 Unknown It goes back to kind of like the Lao kid in a room versus the silent kid, right? The white House working on the white House Situation Room. Okay, plenty of publicity. You can be in the limelight. You can be in the thick of things. You can be in that in that area. But with that comes a lot of extra stress on top of a job. 00;37;38;06 - 00;37;56;01 Unknown Right? Just being in that environment and all that entails. So I was like, yeah, that would be nice. But I don't really I'm not I need to be in the limelight, at the forefront with my name, shine and type person. I'm the type person. I can work. I can work silently in the background and I'm happy either way. 00;37;56;03 - 00;38;42;19 Unknown But to me, because of who Oracle is of the organization, what they've done already knew about Larry Ellison and and just how they were as a company. To me, that value was more than anything, knowing that I will have the opportunity to work on innovative technology to move forward, that can make changes and everything, and just how people use their computer and how people with disabilities use the computer, and how you research thing and how just everybody, elderly people might use a computer or RC computers and how we store that data and secure that data at a more global scale, because not everybody is going to be on a a federal system. 00;38;42;19 - 00;39;06;10 Unknown So, okay, once we lock down, they're locked in. But what about everybody else in the world? What about your kids and your grandkids? You know, how are they being able to touch them? Because I worked and done this presentation on something called Cyber Kids before teaching kids about the security of the internet and the pitfalls of the internet and how to stay safe, and how parents can keep their kids safe online. 00;39;06;12 - 00;39;31;16 Unknown So an organization like Oracle would let me do that more, and it would also let me defend it against those bad actors. Like I had when I was in U.S.. So I can kind of do the military thing without of being military. That's amazing that because that it's hard to say because I don't want to consume time on it here, because it it's hard to believe that it's, you know, sometimes people will say that they hear what you just said and they'll be like, okay. 00;39;31;18 - 00;39;56;02 Unknown But the the depth of what the words are that you just talked about to explain the purpose and and again, it's a biased perspective, but, you know, the things that Oracle's involved in and how how far and how deep these things contribute to the things that we take for granted and simplicity of those things. I mean, you certainly oversimplified it with the depth of all the complexities. 00;39;56;02 - 00;40;19;23 Unknown You know, it's all of these bigger institutions. Yeah, but what about these? And yeah, the folks that are easy to be lost in the shuffle because it's, you know, not big money, not big opportunity, whatever the reason is. And so you got to focus on these, these other little areas that are very specific to how we operate as a, as a global economic contributor to not only society, but things in general, education and whatnot. 00;40;19;23 - 00;40;46;22 Unknown So how excited of Shift gears, how excited are you with the the AI project? Oh, I haven't worked on a much. I've looked into the generative AI here I was on I got a free beat into it here. But Oracle, I'm very excited to eventually put on another bigger project that I'm working for our team right now for Oracle and I what I see of what Oracle's doing is exciting, but every little piece that Oracle is putting in place is a big picture. 00;40;46;22 - 00;41;04;10 Unknown Plan is like the like I said, it's bytes from the elephant that all stalk all strategically place and for everybody else is like I have to be the first one and I'm gonna put it out. But you're putting out a subpar product. It looks good. It's shiny, it works, you know, for the most part, but it's missing some depth to it. 00;41;04;13 - 00;41;23;13 Unknown And Oracle, that was again that kid in the background that paid attention. And they're strategically placing their chips. So foundationally they're going to be more set. They're going to have more of the bases covered. And it's going to all feed into that big picture of what Oracle has and what they want to move. And so the future got it. 00;41;23;13 - 00;41;52;28 Unknown So as we kind of segue and transition out now that we just talked about that and having been here over three years, what are you doing here at Oracle? I'm a principal security engineer with the Threat Voluntarily Management team, where we deal with the different threats and vulnerabilities that are out there using the, cvss vulnerability listing and things that come out with our teams and helping teams to make sure that their systems are secure and within compliance. 00;41;52;28 - 00;42;17;13 Unknown So that's where I'm working right now. Got it. And what are you what are you interested in in the future? What do you have your sights on since your ambition and all of your, aspirations have clearly been indicated in this conversation? What's next? What are you looking to do, either on the next project or in addition to what you're what you're working on now, the next project or things after this? 00;42;17;13 - 00;42;42;21 Unknown I would like to do, I would like to get more into the I feel more to involved in seeing how Oracle's generative AI functions and getting some getting involved in that. That would be the next big thing that I would like to delve into. Got it. So going back to the pin, were earlier you were you were talking about one step at a time and I'm just, paraphrasing. 00;42;42;21 - 00;43;06;05 Unknown So when we transition and this is somewhat of a message to those that are still serving or maybe got out recently, or maybe not even recently, but they're, they're in a situation I wouldn't call them stuck, but they're contemplating the next move. What do you recommend is the kind of this the high level steps to follow to to to help them just achieve what it is that they're trying to do. 00;43;06;07 - 00;43;30;04 Unknown I think one of the biggest things that I've noticed that a lot of military have in the transition, and it's hard because first of all, the military is its own world. How you think about things and how you, carry things out in the military is different than a civilian sector. And I think a big part of transitioning is has to be a mindset shift from military to civilian. 00;43;30;06 - 00;43;53;25 Unknown And a lot I don't think enough of that is talked about because it's a harsh you have to make, especially if you're a person in leadership, your, NCO or officer, and you're used to giving orders. Well, the civilian sector doesn't necessarily work in that way, and you're very structured on rank structure. And the military, a lot of times civilian sector doesn't work that way. 00;43;53;25 - 00;44;27;12 Unknown You can be talking to SVP and you just might be a regular I.T person and they'll talk to you there. There's more. Yeah, we have this rank, but we're kind of flat. We respect that you are that SVP but I'm still a person right. And a lot of it is the transition to how honestly the civilian sector no longer sees the military, who you are as a military person, and that is part of your identity as a person is being sergeant such and such are major, such and such in the in whatever service. 00;44;27;14 - 00;44;49;03 Unknown That is who you are. That was your identity. Well, when you step away from the military and you retire, you get out. You no longer have that identity. That's not it's part of who you are personally. But the world doesn't see that. You know, as long as you're in the world of the Army or whatever military or service, they see that because you wear it every day, you wear that rank every day. 00;44;49;06 - 00;45;12;18 Unknown But the world doesn't see that. So it's not taken into account, you know, so they don't see you as that person. They see you as civilian Peter Smith, you know, or whoever. That's that's what they see. So when your transitioning from the military to the civilian sector, the mindset needs to be is how do I want the civilian sector to see me? 00;45;12;20 - 00;45;47;20 Unknown How am I going to present myself as a civilian? What skill do I need to have in place while I'm transitioned, or do I need to work on years in advance, whether it be certification, finishing my degree, and all of that? What can I get? While I'm still in the last 3 to 5 years to get completed so I can present myself the way I want to be present in the civilian sector and kind of like have those milestones in place when you know you're getting out, and then if you don't have the luxury of doing it for planning out there for years and you get out unexpectedly, then okay, what are my next steps? 00;45;47;20 - 00;46;10;21 Unknown What do I need to do to make myself competitive in whatever field it is I want from a civilian perspective, not from what I did in the military, but just as a sheer civilian. What are the things that I need to do to project myself the correct way and to make myself formidable in the marketplace? Just ask Plano Pat Smith, not Sergeant Smith, you know. 00;46;10;24 - 00;46;39;22 Unknown So that's that's the first step I would do and then go do those things one step at a time. You don't have to you don't have to defeat all this at once. One step at a time. Little things, making sure that you have a good resume that's well-written. Make sure all those classes or courses that you might have taken in the military, if they convert over to knowledge in the civilian sector as a part of a knowledge base, make sure you convert that over to civilian knowledge, because that counts. 00;46;39;25 - 00;46;58;22 Unknown And we don't think in the military, some of the stuff that we did, we think is regular everyday stuff, and we take the classes, whether it be computer classes, whether it be other engineering, whatever, because it's just part of the job and dealing with the equipment that we deal with. So we don't take it into consideration. But that converts over to to a civilian course somewhere. 00;46;58;25 - 00;47;15;24 Unknown So take advantage of doing that. And the biggest thing is the mindset. And then you don't have to do everything all at once in the military use okay, get it done. Just make it happen. But you can take time out on civilians like, okay, how do I need to go? Where do I need to go? What steps do I need to take? 00;47;15;27 - 00;47;34;21 Unknown Research those steps, research those things on whatever job it is you need to do if you want to be a nurse. Okay. What nursing school? Can I be an LPN first and just go to a technical college for 18 months and get my LPN and then work towards getting my degree so I can be a RA? Or can I go and be a CNA and do steps? 00;47;34;23 - 00;47;51;13 Unknown You know what I mean? To, to kind of like not shake your life up as much as, as much as possible to make a smooth transition. Put those baby steps in there, whereas the Oregon is the ultimate goal. But if you get out and you get a CNA position, you can still work towards your LPN degree at night. 00;47;51;16 - 00;48;10;09 Unknown Then you got your LPN and well, you can work for your R.N. license and make it as steps instead of big projects. And I say that's not a stressful dealing with the transition and ask questions. Research stuff on the internet. Find people that you might know that are in your field that are not in the military. Talk to them. 00;48;10;11 - 00;48;28;01 Unknown Hear what they have to say. Listen to the things that they say, okay, you need to have this, but reach out to people. Form a network of people that are already in there that you might know, because there might be other people, even in the military, there might know of people that are transitioning out or have people that they know in the civilian sector that can give you some pointers and find a mentor. 00;48;28;04 - 00;48;54;22 Unknown Find a mentor of somebody that's already transitioned out that can help you through and take advantage of. Some of the VA does have programs for transition. Take advantage of those things. I know it might seem small, but every little bit of assistance in transitioning that you can get the better. So take advantage of those things because it'll it'll it'll it'll help change your mindset and make the transition easier for you. 00;48;54;25 - 00;49;19;29 Unknown That was amazing. Okay. And and I'm not I mean, you hit all of the bigger items. The check check the not check boxes because it's difficult identity. That's that's probably the first one. And this is not for me. It's not debatable for some that maybe you don't have yet realized it like you have. Identity is the number one prevention from moving through the other things that you talked about is deciding, remembering. 00;49;20;03 - 00;49;42;10 Unknown You were you were somebody before you hit the rank or the command or things like that. And that's what people will, will look at. So I love this. So identity the mindset shift to understand identity, skill development, networking relations, shipbuilding versus networking. Networking is different. Very intentional very specific thing which is fine. But relationship building is the other thing. 00;49;42;10 - 00;50;08;12 Unknown Yes. And that's probably the the distinction. And then of course the planning of being able to once you identify all of these different components, you plan for it work the plan and go. Exactly. Yeah. Pat Smith, I love the way that you stated these things in such a methodical way in order. It explains exactly the path that you kind of walked us through. 00;50;08;14 - 00;50;36;03 Unknown I enjoyed the conversation. I appreciate you making time. Any final thoughts for anybody listening? Now I just want to say thank you for having me on the podcast, Chris. I really appreciate it. Oh you bet. And then thank you. I'm grateful that, we were able to connect. I do love the way that Maven does their stuff internally to where even for us, it introduces folks that right beneath our nose, we have a lot of relationships that we still need to continue making and creating connections. 00;50;36;03 - 00;50;49;16 Unknown So, it's a pleasure to have met you and had this conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you Chris, you have a great rest of your day. You too tired at one? Keep moving forward.…

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3 Simple Rules: Howie Chan, Oracle Senior Technical Program Manager and Marine Veteran 42:59

23 дні тому42:59

42:59

His leadership journey shaped by early family influences and a strong sense of service, Howie graduated from the US Naval Academy where he commissioned into the United States Marine Corps and spent his entire enlistment overseas learning what it truly takes to lead by example. Howie shares valuable lessons on navigating change, building community, and thinking strategically about your next steps—especially when transitioning careers. From "trust but verify" to embracing optimism and knowing when to say no, Howie’s leadership philosophy puts mission and people first. Coming to Oracle through our Oracle Veteran Internship Program, known also as OVIP, Howie is bringing those same principles to his role, and we’re excited to see what he’ll accomplish next. Howie's Linked In - https://www.linkedin.com/in/hmchan16/ Oracle Veteran Info - https://www.oracle.com/careers/culture-inclusion/veterans/#rc30veteran Service 2 School - https://www.service2school.org/ Microsoft's MSSA Tech Bootcamp - https://military.microsoft.com/mssa/ Breakline - https://breakline.org/ FourBlock - https://fourblock.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;47;19 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by Howie Chan, Oracle senior technical program manager and former United States Marine. His leadership journey, shaped by early family influences and a strong sense of service, led Howie to graduate from the United States Naval Academy, where he commissioned into the United States Marine Corps and spent his entire overseas learning what it truly takes to lead by example, how he shares valuable lessons on navigating change, building community, and thinking strategically 00;00;47;19 - 00;01;09;09 Unknown about your next steps, especially when transitioning careers from trust but verify to embracing optimism and knowing when to say no. How his leadership philosophy puts mission in people first. Coming to Oracle through Oracle's veteran internship program, known also as over how he's bringing those same principles to his role, and we're excited to see what to accomplish next. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. 00;01;09;09 - 00;01;29;17 Unknown So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Howie's contact details in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Good morning Howie. How's it going? 00;01;29;19 - 00;01;49;11 Unknown Hey, Chris. Pretty good man. How about yourself? Doing all right? Thanks. Yep. It's, the beginning of the week, and it's early. Not real early, but early enough to get to get us a good baseline to have a great conversation. Sure. Now, I appreciate your time. Happy to do this. Yeah. No. Likewise. And, you know, for everybody listening. 00;01;49;11 - 00;02;08;22 Unknown You know, how he's how he joined us through one of our hiring channels. And I'll let him elaborate on those things and, and talk about how it is that we came to meet and what we're talking about today. But before we get there, Howie, tell us a little bit about you. So, yeah, my name is Howie Chan. I was born in the South. 00;02;08;29 - 00;02;27;29 Unknown I grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee, and most of my life in Huntsville, Alabama. From there, I went to the U.S. Naval Academy and commissioned into the US Marine Corps as a communications and signals officer. Over the last 70 years in capacity. So my entire career overseas, three and half years in Asia, three and half years in the Middle East. 00;02;28;01 - 00;02;51;18 Unknown I got the Marine Corps at the end of 2022 and took a travel sabbatical in 2023, traveling the globe from there. Joined Oracle, through Oracle's veteran internship program, over last year. So grateful to the Lord for opened a door to be able to do a current internship to a full time offer. But, that's essentially how I got here, was through Oracle's veteran internship program. 00;02;51;20 - 00;03;25;03 Unknown Got it. No. It's great. So Knoxville, Was it was what was growing up in Knoxville like for you, you know, how did that lead to Huntsville? Yeah. Candidly, you know, I was I was I was on there Knoxville til I was about seven years old. I've one older brother and my dad being a medical doctor, he had a really crazy work schedule and so when my brother and in middle school, my dad was on called time or, like, on duty all the time, and my brother mentioned, like he wanted to see my dad were often and we wanted to be doing more family things. 00;03;25;03 - 00;03;45;26 Unknown And so my dad made the decision to move our family from Knoxville, Tennessee down to Huntsville, Alabama for better work life fit, and he was able to find that. And that's how we end up moving from Knoxville to Huntsville. But but yeah, I've been in the South once all my life that that makes that so. So about how old were you when when you went to Huntsville. 00;03;45;28 - 00;04;16;14 Unknown That was that. 77878778. Yeah. How was how was that transition from Knoxville to Huntsville as far as friends and going to school and things like that? I think naturally, you know, when you're in a new environment, it's always a challenge initially up front, but you're able to make things work. But, after getting acquainted, I was able to make new friends and build a community and then take those lessons over time as we gotten older and take it to our life today. 00;04;16;17 - 00;04;38;21 Unknown That's you could transplant that and building a community, adapting basically as an eight year old, the same way as you can do as an 18 year old, in a 28 year old and so we'll, we'll come back to that part because it's we got to talk about that. Right. As a as as the veteran affiliated community. We have to talk about that. 00;04;38;24 - 00;04;59;10 Unknown So growing up, what made you go to the Naval Academy? What kind of get us to the part of where you're saying, this is what I want to do, no less? Definitely a fair question. Actually, I would say, you know, look at my family. We come from a family of service. I actually had two cousins who were in the military commission through the U.S. Naval Academy. 00;04;59;12 - 00;05;20;13 Unknown Cousin John, in 1999, you know, joined the nuclear submarine force. And my cousin Mickey, who commission in 2005 joined NSW in the Naval Special Warfare. As part of the teams, the Navy Seal teams, for about 20 years. But they were positive influences in my life and I think we can all relate to that one family friend or uncle relative who joined the military. 00;05;20;15 - 00;05;39;12 Unknown And yeah, I mean, ideally positive influences. But you know, for the fact for my two cousins, they were excellent role models for me. And so whenever they had their spring break or fall break, they would come visit my family, either in Huntsville, Alabama or Knoxville at that time. And yeah, I always loved them. And I view them as like older brothers and mentors. 00;05;39;12 - 00;06;03;02 Unknown And when I came to, actually thinking about the service, the I just reached out to them and they, they said like, hey, you know, you're looking for a great education. You're also looking to also serve the country and give back. Why not go for like the service academies, whether it's the Naval Camera, West Point. And so looking at the different branches, you know, I definitely wanted to other join either the Navy or the Marine Corps. 00;06;03;02 - 00;06;25;06 Unknown And so the Naval Academy, it made the most sense for me. What year was what year is that when you went to the Naval Academy? I was in the Naval Academy from 2012 to May 2016. Yeah, it's you have 2012 to 2016. What kind of prep does it take for someone to make that choice? How early do you need to think about that and land on a path that gets you ready? 00;06;25;09 - 00;06;47;16 Unknown I would say maybe a year and a half to two years and advance. So I think for those who are considering the service academy path, whether they're in high school or even a few years removed from high school because the, the, the maximum age you can join is 23 years old or so. They do accept prior listed folks to actually commission through the service academies until 23 years old. 00;06;47;18 - 00;07;06;18 Unknown Yeah, I would recommend roughly about a year and a half to two years, I think, definitely assessing where you are at physically. There's also a component where besides completing the college application to other than Naval County, West Point or other academies, you also need a a political nomination that's from your congressman, your senator or the vice president president. 00;07;06;21 - 00;07;24;15 Unknown And so they have their own each of those different buckets, they all have their own timelines roughly. They're similar, but they can be nuanced differently based on their own, timelines. But you also have to go through on vetting process to get a nomination so you can complete all the, you know, college applications. You can complete the physical tests. 00;07;24;15 - 00;07;50;26 Unknown There's also there's a physical test component as well too. You can do all those things, but you don't have a political nomination, whether it's your senator or your congressman or vice president, you're not allowed to, receive an appointment to attend one of those academies when you're in. For those that aren't quite familiar with how how the assignment works, because some might hear you say, Naval Academy and I was assigned and then the Marine Corps walk us through the process of where you end up, what branch holistically. 00;07;50;26 - 00;08;07;05 Unknown I mean, the U.S. AmeriCorps is part of a Department of Navy, whether we'd like to admit that or not, but we are. But the Naval Academy is the commissioning source, both for the Navy and the Marine Corps. If you're choosing the service academy as the route of commissioning, roughly, you start with a class of 1200 your freshman year, a year, like we call it. 00;08;07;05 - 00;08;34;05 Unknown And by the time you you graduate, your first year or senior year, there's usually a thousand. And so roughly 75%. So about 750 commissioned US Navy, whereas the other 250, that 25% you commissioned to US Marine Corps. And so the summer and your senior year at the Naval Academy is like they like the justification. Usually there's like an assessment to see like which and validate like which branch of service you like to be a part of or interested in. 00;08;34;05 - 00;09;02;07 Unknown And then based on your academic standings, your performance during that summer, military training, the summer prior to entering your senior year, come the mid fall timeframe, that's when you find out which, branch that you'll be a part of. But for me, I really gravitate towards the US Marine Corps because being exposed to highly, qualified senior leaders, and also officers at the least at the Naval Academy, I was just really drawn to the Marine Corps, especially just the caliber folks. 00;09;02;14 - 00;09;18;05 Unknown Their motivation, it was just infectious. And I want to be part of that environment and be challenged. And, you know, for for me, I seen these people, what they're doing. I want to join one of the toughest branches and Marine Corps. It seemed to be a great fit for me. So it was the people that the calling, the challenges. 00;09;18;07 - 00;09;36;07 Unknown And I would say those are the two things because of what really drew me to the Marine Corps. Yeah, yeah. You got did you hear that cry? Just the battle cry right now while the Marines just celebrating your choice. The words that you just chose to use for sure. So what happens after that? So you get now you're in senior year. 00;09;36;07 - 00;09;57;09 Unknown You know you're going to the Marines. When do you when do you learn what your your job, your role will be whether you graduate from the Naval Academy or or another publicly accredited university, all Marine Corps officers, they all we all get sent to Quantico, Virginia at the 26 week program called the Basic School, where we all learn how to be provisional rifle platoon commanders. 00;09;57;11 - 00;10;26;15 Unknown And so roughly, that's a six month training pipeline. And by the last month or two, you have to rack and stack based on the list of like 26 different places or different job specialties. What we like to consider. And then based on your academic standings, the ratings for the Marine Corps change, they kind of went through like a, a tiered system, like a 1/33, three third, there's a happy quality spread, but it's fluctuated in terms of based on performance versus a tiered system to have a quality spread. 00;10;26;15 - 00;10;43;09 Unknown So someone who's more and more recently and would have a better understanding. But at the time they did a quality spread for our class. So what I mean by that is like, let's say that there's a class of 300. There's like tiered slots. It's like one bucket number one's for the first 100, second bucket for next, and so on. 00;10;43;11 - 00;11;00;12 Unknown They did not want to have particular job specialties to be all lopsided with all like top performers. Otherwise all the other molasses and chop specialties were going to be neglected. So they did a quality spread where, you know, you could be ranked number one and get your first choice. You'd be ranked number 200 and get your first choice. 00;11;00;12 - 00;11;21;17 Unknown You can be like number 300 bomb blast. Let's look at your first choice as well too. But the point being, though, the intent was to have a quality spread where you have high performers across all embassies. So, that was the mindset at that time in 2016 they may be doing today, I'm not sure, but at that time that we chose for me, I got my first choice, which was communication signals for me. 00;11;21;17 - 00;11;40;17 Unknown My preference is I want to be close to technology. I want to be close to being platoons of Marines and actually lead based on, you know, based on leadership development from the Naval Academy and also from coming from the Bates School in Quantico. And the main MOS is word you have the opportunity to do that were either two infantry logistics or communications and signals. 00;11;40;17 - 00;11;58;19 Unknown And so for me, it was a no brainer to choose one of those three. And I was able to get my top five choice of the comms signals. And that's where my journey began. Like it. Were you surprised after after that you had initial understanding of what? What that what do we call job classification? MOS yeah, we call them lessons with. 00;11;58;19 - 00;12;16;21 Unknown Did anything surprise you once you got into the C and you started leading the Marines and actually fulfilling the obligations of the role, any surprises? Oh, man, there's more surprises all the time. I would say that initially the impression we were going to the fleet after all this train, it's like, all right, I got all my act together, all the training. 00;12;16;21 - 00;12;49;01 Unknown And when you show up to your first unit and mission said you actually have no idea what you're doing at first. But that's why you have good NCO, you have good advisors, and you also have good officers, ideally to come alongside you and walk you through the process to teach you the process and systems of how the record does business and the particular with each unit, you know, whether you're in the Pacific or you're in the West Coast or East Coast, each unit has their own preference of how they do business, and so over a period of time, ideally, you'll be able to mold and adapt to that, to that team and unit, to be 00;12;49;01 - 00;13;09;00 Unknown able to use your skills that that's been developed to more through that. And yeah, it's definitely a growing process and learning process. And, you know, I can definitely say that I learned a lot of what to do as a leader, what not to do as leader. And and just have a and in due time, be able to grow my understanding of how the Marine Corps operates and the bigger picture. 00;13;09;03 - 00;13;39;29 Unknown Top three lessons learned. What are they who, number wants to trust but verify? It's a good one. I would say the second one would be it's okay to say no and learn how to have boundaries to, push back within reason. And that's a that's a growing skill. Let's continue that. That's a hard one. But I would say the third one would be just to have an optimistic attitude because, and just roll with the punches. 00;13;39;29 - 00;13;58;08 Unknown So, transmit, verify, learn how to say no. And if there is, I have enough in the sky too. I think those are those can go a long way. Yeah, those those are good ones. You have any one cert? Put you on the spot. You have any one circumstance that where you recall as an example of any one of those three. 00;13;58;11 - 00;14;13;04 Unknown Yeah. I would say trust but verify. I mean it is my first unit. I learned what to do or what not to do it later. I think Trump's a new lieutenant coming to a unit. There's an expectation that you're supposed to learn quickly and perform at the same time. You don't really know anything at the same time. 00;14;13;04 - 00;14;32;08 Unknown Depending on different units. Sometimes some units are under-resourced, both manpower and equipment. And so you just have to learn how to figure it out and you have to work do with what you had. And so the situation where I was was I didn't have a senior leader initially. And so I don't rely a lot on a bunch of, of NCOs along the time process. 00;14;32;08 - 00;14;51;24 Unknown And of course, and with rank and experience, there are things that people are aware of, things aren't, they're not aware of. And so I worked with what I had at the time. I was really grateful to those engineers because they understood where I was coming from. And they also at the same time. And so it was like a balance between trusting them but also verifying with them. 00;14;51;27 - 00;15;12;18 Unknown But I'm very grateful to them from those experiences because we went through a lot together. And whether it's unit inspections coming down from Marine Corps to just supporting different military exercises across the region, I would say that first unit, during that first term was pivotal in terms of development as an officer, in terms of, yeah, trusting but verify and learning how to have an optimistic attitude. 00;15;12;18 - 00;15;30;11 Unknown And it's it's such a lot of tough situations and also learn how to say no. Which it actually helped me out later down the road towards my second to our lot. So I think often back about that first tour, a lot has been pivotal to to follow up. So that so where was your first assignment? I wanted to travel and see the world. 00;15;30;16 - 00;16;09;28 Unknown And so I made a point. Prior to go to Okinawa, Japan was my first choice for the Marine Corps. And I would say that that first unit was with the Marine Wing, Communication Squadron 18. That's based over on Camp Foster and Okinawa, Japan. Basically, their main mission is to provide communications for first marine aircraft, weighing whether it's with tilt rotor aircraft such as Beat Ospreys or skids like Cobras, Vipers, whatnot, or depending on which unit, fixed wings the power of you're attached to the units, but holistically is to provide communication support for the aircraft component of the Marine Corps and the commanding general who supports, first of all, so that was the 00;16;09;28 - 00;16;41;24 Unknown main mission, part of that mission to after I got experience, I've able to commander and eventually pivoted to me becoming an independent S6 or independent, I guess. Trusted advisor, communications advisor for the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit, which is, for a continuous deployed unit over in the Pacific that provides a variety of mission profiles for our nation, whether it's from humanitarian assistance and disaster relief to our partners in region or providing a lot of power combat power capabilities for our nation and our partner allies within region as well, too, in terms of deterrence. 00;16;41;27 - 00;17;02;14 Unknown But those were the main to mission to the surface. MEU but holistically, that's where I was. So Okinawa, Japan Brewing Communication Squadron 18, eventually, after getting some experience, then pushed a three person view which postured me up for later going down to Middle East later. But I loved every bit of it. I love, I love traveling, and I definitely was able to travel and see the world during that time. 00;17;02;20 - 00;17;27;14 Unknown So learning from your senior and CEOs, maybe some junior NCOs and how Marines are sometimes any pranks shenanigans that you remember when they know that we have a new lieutenant coming in, we're going to show them some ropes, but no, actually had a good bunch. I definitely had to get my employee to our pranks on me. I think it takes time to build rapport. 00;17;27;14 - 00;17;48;06 Unknown And I think that what really built rapport between myself and them and trust me, and going to continuous requests, just they knew the pressure that I was going through. And you sure that giant cared for their well-being? And even though I may have been during my initial my first time being a leader at that situation, they were very forgiving. 00;17;48;08 - 00;18;05;24 Unknown Like, okay, I know they recognize that how he's going through some pressures will work through it, but over a period of time over that year and a half, we really trust each other a lot. You know, they've been never back, you know, just to help me out. You know, as engineers, the main four three Mandela Kowski, Seth Low, Chad Allen, very grateful to them. 00;18;05;26 - 00;18;26;01 Unknown There were corporals and sergeants at the time, E45 but, they were definitely the glue for that. And also my platoon sergeant, Dajuan Phillips and Solis and others. But, they were pivotal in terms of, you know, if I didn't have them. Oh my gosh, I would not have been successful at all. So I'm a product of their success. 00;18;26;03 - 00;18;48;26 Unknown Yeah. That's that's good answer. Support. No better friend. Right. 90% 90%. But I know there's something in there that you don't let you leave it out. So we'll just leave it at though because you're, you're you're doing the right thing. So your second, second, duty station was that, that was in Bahrain in the Middle Eastern. 00;18;48;28 - 00;19;07;26 Unknown I knew that, my time being a camo comms and signal officer that do you location preferences in terms of going to Middle East and being attached? Was pretty limited, but at the time, moving from Japan to the Middle East, my three options were Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Bahrain. I put that in and that particular preference order. 00;19;07;29 - 00;19;25;07 Unknown And I came Bahrain, which candidly at the time I was pretty ignorant. I was like, I don't even know where the country Bahrain sat. I know what Saudi Arabia is. I've heard of the UAE, I know where Bahrain is. And so after going some googling everything to figure out of all small, tiny kingdom just to the east of Saudi Arabia, but I am going to Bahrain. 00;19;25;07 - 00;19;54;07 Unknown And as Palmer sent G6 or Marine Central Command G essentially in that role, I was providing it communication support for all Marine Corps forces across the entire Middle East region. So whether it's supporting SPE, Mac, Taft, special purpose Mac tasks, or supporting any marine as you come into theater, what is the 22nd you 26, me or whoever? There's a joint Naval Marine Corps command called Task Force 51 five or Task Force 51 from the Navy, joint with a fifth Marine Expeditionary gave them Marine Corps. 00;19;54;10 - 00;20;18;05 Unknown But essentially, these folks would take control of this joint, any Marine Corps forces that come in the region. So I was there from 2020 to 2022. That was a zone challenge by itself. But definitely my first four experience definitely helped posture me to be better equipped of how to support that mission. And I also had, some great teammates as well too, in order to make that successful. 00;20;18;05 - 00;20;36;07 Unknown But the Middle East Centcom was my second choice, and I was able to continue my passion of traveling, seeing the world and doing so in the Middle East. Nice. Yeah, that's that's a good it's a good mix. I mean, it's, it's a long time though. So that's where with two you said three and two. Yeah. Three and two. 00;20;36;07 - 00;20;54;17 Unknown So I was about three and a half. Yeah. December 2017 one to August 2020 was for Japan. And then from August 2022 till November 2022, that was, in the Middle East. Got it. What are some of the some of the key things that you learned now that you had the what's lengthy times in each of those locations, but different experiences, I'm sure. 00;20;54;17 - 00;21;18;10 Unknown So what what was the beginning of where you started to recognize whether or not you were going to continue on reenlist or, choose to transition out? You know, every servicemember goes through that transition work, whether you're to your first enlistment after your fourth four years, if you're a junior military officer, in terms of initial five years or so, I think we all have that conversation. 00;21;18;13 - 00;21;33;03 Unknown And so, you know, I recognize that people come from different units, right? Some of them may have a really positive experience, some you really have a really crappy experience. And so that really dictates and shapes people's decision process of whether they want to get the heck out as soon as possible or they really love it. And if we continue it. 00;21;33;04 - 00;21;52;01 Unknown So I do recognize that it's going to vary for different people. But I enjoyed my time as much as it was challenging. And I made the decision point. Probably as I was moving to the Middle East, I was thinking about myself. Do I want to go back to Okinawa to become a company commander and join, third Marine Division in terms of that track, you know, career trajectory? 00;21;52;01 - 00;22;14;23 Unknown Or should I pivot and just pivot to the private sector and I was leaning probably a 6040 split initially, 60% up getting out, 40% staying in, while I was in Middle East, mainly because I had some family circumstances. My family, and something I didn't mention earlier is that after my, you know, after I went to college, my folks became empty nesters and moved from Alabama to California. 00;22;14;26 - 00;22;38;05 Unknown And so since I have been away from home for over almost five years now, it was five years, it was time for me just to come back home and be closer to family. And so the decision in terms of being closer to family and also looking at the career trajectory too candidly to see a 4 to 5 in terms of within the community, some loved it, some maturity, and we're just okay with it. 00;22;38;07 - 00;22;56;25 Unknown And I, I recognize that maybe that, my perspective is limited compared to other people's experiences, but at least with my experience in my circle, it was a confirmation for me. Just talking with them candidly from like 1 to 1 about their career trajectory, is that just hearing their stories and the challenges? It was for me, it was time for me just to move on based on this conversation. 00;22;56;25 - 00;23;15;19 Unknown So. So yeah, that's a long way of me of saying that the decision process to move out was initially was moving to the Middle East, and at the same time, while I was finishing my second tour, I was already having conversations with different folks, both who are thinking about those who stayed in in terms of understand why they wanted to. 00;23;15;19 - 00;23;38;01 Unknown And I started talking to other, folks who recently transition. We're going through a transition themselves, or those who are two years removed as well, too, because I want to have a holistic approach of what people's experiences were in the transition, because it's definitely not easy, and everyone's transition is very personal, and it's gonna look very different. That talk. 00;23;38;04 - 00;23;59;28 Unknown So let's can we circle around that topic for a little bit. So about how long from your termination date or separation date did you start that process. Was it as you were going to Bahrain or early while you were there? Discharge the question of how long did it take me? I would say it took roughly about one year. 00;24;00;02 - 00;24;23;04 Unknown I made is when I got back from leave in October 2021, while still station and the Middle East, I made the decision thought process, thought process to actually leave. I started the administration process at least formally lay my battalion commander know and others a decision thought process. And so that way once giving due diligence to the unit to make sure there's like unit continuity, to make sure that our operations are impeded. 00;24;23;04 - 00;24;46;13 Unknown Based on my decision to leave, it also allowed both from the senior advisors and also the officer corps to do in terms of manpower projections, in terms of once you onboard the next batch or crew for to replace myself. But, yeah, I started and verbalized that conversation in October 2021, went through the admin process. By the summer 2022, I think it was like June 2022. 00;24;46;13 - 00;25;16;12 Unknown That's when I got official resignation papers were approved. And I basically, because I really enjoyed my time in the Middle East as I just to write it out until my replacement came in around the late fall of 2022. Got it. Yes. And so I'm asking because when we get when we get this far in a conversation with, well, recent service members who transition to veteran status, it's always an interesting like it's not it's not even a discussion. 00;25;16;12 - 00;25;53;08 Unknown It's just to understand the timelines because you all have branches, different branches. Consider the available resources at certain times. Right. So that, you know, generally speaking, a sweeping statement is officers probably get a little bit more information earlier when the longer you're in two years out, you start processing or thinking about the idea to where you can have an opportunity to process and then, you know, enlisted maybe a year out and, you know, so it's in a in a timeline of what you're indicating, a five years in a first term, first enlistment. 00;25;53;10 - 00;26;13;20 Unknown What what is the typical timelines that people start to consider these things? Because what we're finding, again, anecdotal data, what we're finding is planning is sometimes more prominently last minute and last minute in the sense of within a year they there's a decision to make, you know, I don't want to do this. I want to do something else. 00;26;13;20 - 00;26;36;11 Unknown Or for whatever reason is the reasons matter less. It's just when you when you land on that. So looking at the priorities and the process, you mentioned that you started to network and and ask people both in who who are thinking about it what their experiences were, that, is that a common thing? Do you think that somebody like you is planning to get out? 00;26;36;11 - 00;26;57;29 Unknown And then you started to ask around to, to get information that would help you with that decision, or is that something that you found yourself to be different in that sense than others? I think the general principles are the same. I think that the way I like to view it, and I think what makes it different, it's just like the types of people that you're with in terms of where they are severely. 00;26;58;04 - 00;27;16;14 Unknown Well, I don't say severely, but it greatly will affect your decision process. So that's why I, I would encourage all veterans, regardless whether you're also in listen to really because you don't know what you know, to really encourage to you to reach out to other military veterans across the community to find out their journey from the military to where they are today, regardless of industry. 00;27;16;16 - 00;27;33;10 Unknown You know, the example I like to think about is like concentric circles, right? So in your inner core, you got yourself in a dead center. And then as you as you branch out, you have your family friends, right? Like, oh, how did you know Uncle Joe or my neighbor Bob or whoever? How did we get to do our job? 00;27;33;10 - 00;27;52;10 Unknown They are today, right? And as you're expanding from your family, friends, then you're going to your former teammates as your buddies, whether they finish your enlistment or they finish their off for, you know, a term, you asked about their process and then from there, whether you went to college or you didn't. But if there's any alumni that you know of, those are folks that can reach out. 00;27;52;10 - 00;28;11;12 Unknown And eventually when you get to the outer rings of the concentric circle, that's using LinkedIn is a fantastic tool. In order to help narrow your search of reaching out and connecting to different veterans and to reach out to them at different seasons of whenever they transition. That's true. That's a good point. And that that's a good plan, you know, to define. 00;28;11;15 - 00;28;36;00 Unknown And then ironic that you say circle, find who within your circle and how that that circle is expansive and there's layers to the circles and the relationships you have and those you serve with, those you maybe didn't. And then you use tools to be able to extend that process, like LinkedIn or social media in some capacity, where you can be intentional about looking for specific individuals that fit mostly with what you know. 00;28;36;03 - 00;29;11;26 Unknown Because like you mentioned, you don't know what you don't know. Sometimes you know what you don't know. And that that's part of the process is to get to that part. Oh, I didn't think about that. Let me go pursue that. So when it when it comes to the process, at which point did you start to feel like you had a good grip on the outside world, the civilian world in where to go and how to position yourself so others can see you for you, not the uniform you were wearing or the rank that you had, I think is going to differ based on folks. 00;29;11;26 - 00;29;44;17 Unknown I would say for me, I'd say it's taken me probably a little over a year, year and a half. But I'm still continue to learn that right? Because, you know, it is a major lifestyle change from the military to the corporate sector and the civilian life. But if I had to say that, you know, if I encourage veterans regardless, like those still in the service to think about getting out, those are transitioning or or those who Rafe transition out, it is, I think, a framework to encourage those folks would be the one is to define what your successes. 00;29;44;19 - 00;30;11;03 Unknown And it's okay not to know initially what your success is. But I think in this discover self discovery process, as you reach out to different veterans and, teammates, former teammates, you're able to get a picture in terms of what you like and what you don't like. And I think it's the first time in your life where the Army or Marine Corps or Uncle Sam does have to tell you, hey, you're going to go to your second choice duty station or your last duty past duty station of choice. 00;30;11;06 - 00;30;35;19 Unknown So I would say that, so you're all thinking about this is to think about the location, think about, you know, the salary, what you're expecting post military and even the type of role and function you might be part of. And it's okay to be really honest, to say to yourself that, hey, if the Marine Corps or Army or whoever plays me into a job function like our MOS, I really didn't want to do, it's okay to say that you didn't want to do it, and you can play it, pivot. 00;30;35;27 - 00;31;08;24 Unknown And whatever your goal you're think of to pivot from what you did to Army or Marine Corps to a completely different function. Whatever you see, the gap is, if any of you need to go to school, which you can definitely leverage your GI Bill. And there are plenty of like, fantastic nonprofit organizations that help both officers and enlisted, especially the enlisted, there are resources such as like, you know, services schools, which is a nonprofit program that helps, veterans, leverage your GI Bill and pivot and serve as advisors and get help them matriculate to the school of their dreams, regardless of rank. 00;31;08;27 - 00;31;30;03 Unknown And they potentially pair you with veterans who've gone through it themselves. So, whether it's parents with enlisted, with enlisted or officer, with officer or so on, so on, that's a fantastic resource that veterans can leverage to use to bridge that gap. And they see an interesting gap between their skills and education to their dream job. But yeah, I would say, number one, define your success. 00;31;30;03 - 00;31;46;24 Unknown And within that success, even if you don't know if that's okay, but just start having conversations with veterans about, you know, what they do, how they get to where they are today. And in those conversations, you're going to be, you know, you'll soon find out in terms of what you're okay with and what you're not okay with. 00;31;46;27 - 00;32;03;24 Unknown Like for me is I know I want to be in the West Coast because my family's in the West Coast. And this time frame, you know, I talk to different veterans in different industries, whether it's consulting, finance, technology and consulting and finance live. But something that I do not want to do with the long hours of any 100 hour work weeks. 00;32;03;24 - 00;32;24;05 Unknown While the salary may be amazing, but the work life fit is horrible. And so the reason why I got out is so that I can be closer to family. And so, you know, for me, and because my interest in technology intrinsically, the technology sector seem to be the best fit, and there are different programs I can help you pivot in the tech space. 00;32;24;05 - 00;32;48;11 Unknown I mean, obviously, Oracle's then our internship program is a fantastic program. I'm a product of that today. For those who aren't familiar with that program or Oracle Veteran Internship program, essentially it's a 12 week internship program to provide corporate experiences and exposure to these transition military veterans, transition veterans, and military spouses. And I would say that the program offers to do three things. 00;32;48;14 - 00;33;13;10 Unknown The ones that validate what you're interested in in tech space. So you're building your industry interest. Second is that you're valuing the job function or role. So I know that a lot of veterans tend to gravitate towards project management. As a go to, as you go to job. But some folks may not enjoy project management. And so but then if you look at the list of what it has to offer, there's so many different roles in the tech space. 00;33;13;12 - 00;33;30;24 Unknown You do sales for the Customer Success Post-sales, but there's so many different job functions that veterans can do and can succeed and do. So with that 12 week internship program, you're able to validate whether this is a particular job role and function that you want to do. And the last aspect is what's not guaranteed. But there's a potential for employment depending on that. 00;33;30;24 - 00;34;04;16 Unknown There is headcount available for that. But there are resources out there to help their, transition into the next, next step. But for those who are interested in technology and interested and having a corporate experience, in a well-organized way, I would definitely strongly encourage Oracle's veteran internship program. There's also a newer, initiative called Cloud Launch for new grads, that's open to both military spouses and veterans, where if if veterans are interested in pursuing a career in sales engineering or cloud architects, it's called cloud launch. 00;34;04;19 - 00;34;29;02 Unknown That's something that's, that's that's a particular path that folks can consider. And I believe there's also something within that suite. I'm not too familiar with that. But from I understand, I think that's what does a lot of, veteran hire initiatives as well, too. But at least for those who are interested in Oracle, you can either choose the Purple Veteran Internship program, which is the cloud launch, and you could have you can also choose and that me and regardless whether yeah, I mean those are just fantastic resources you can consider. 00;34;29;02 - 00;34;52;19 Unknown But there's plenty of options out there. Let me pause right there, Chris. I know there was a lot on one take. Let me know what percentiles I can try to address now. That's good. You just saved me a lot of words because you covered the things that that I was hoping we we could discuss. But going back to one of the options, because I'm curious when when you were thinking about getting out, did you know about skill bridge? 00;34;52;22 - 00;35;21;19 Unknown I did know about Skill Bridge, and I would definitely encourage veterans to definitely leverage that. For me, in terms of my billet, I wasn't really afforded the opportunity to have skill bridge, mainly because it's a high priority billet in terms of I was a part of. And so and it's a lot harder to transition overseas and that I say it's doable for I mean it's I'm sure it's doable for those overseas, but there's a lot more challenging to transition from overseas rather than back in Conus in the United States, continental U.S., actually U.S. soil. 00;35;21;24 - 00;35;43;27 Unknown I would definitely leverage skill bridge if possible, but I recognize that it's unit dependent. So whether you're a baton commander or there needs to be a unit, I mean, it's I'm content on their approval. But if you can, I would strongly, strongly advocate for all veterans, regardless of rank after enlisted to leverage that, because that's a great first taste, corporate sector and kind of the three things I talked about. 00;35;43;27 - 00;36;02;24 Unknown Right. This is a particular entry you want to be a part of. This is a it's a job function that you want to do. And it can be a potential source of employment. Yes. And you landed on the distinction as well as the benefit and that that's part of some of the challenges that service members face is being exposed to those opportunities. 00;36;02;24 - 00;36;23;15 Unknown So I'm very grateful you brought them up because it does matter. The most important component you talked about is when you start to identify your successes, you're going to be able to now relate to opportunities that can continue, that allow you to continue on your successes and that does include the research, the networking, the conversations you have with others so you can learn about those things that you weren't aware of. 00;36;23;15 - 00;36;44;21 Unknown And skill bridge sometimes seems to be something that not every person, every service member is made aware of because of one thing or the other. And so with this conversation and conversations like these, we hope to bring more awareness to those serving so they know what their options include. It's case they're not getting a complete download of of what's available to them. 00;36;44;28 - 00;37;05;28 Unknown So thanks for sharing those things. And how how did you end up hearing about Oracle Veteran Internship Program over it? It kind of goes back to number one and talked about earlier about your network and reaching out. So I went through LinkedIn and I just started looking at veterans in different parts of the industry. And at least in terms of defining my success, I knew I wanted to be in the industry of technology. 00;37;06;01 - 00;37;23;13 Unknown And so I started reaching out to different veterans on LinkedIn and just asking for, hey, whether they were in person, I would be for a cup of coffee, or whether it's just the nature of being so spread out across the states. She's asking for a 15 20 minute chats over zoom or whatever, and some would answer some or not respond. 00;37;23;13 - 00;37;48;07 Unknown You get a mixed bag of responses. But for those who did respond, there was one veteran who responded and he mentioned to me about open. And so I first heard about Covid, probably, ooh, I think that's the fall of 2023. That's when I first heard about that. I actually applied. And for the December winter cohort, I did not get accepted, but I was not deterred by that. 00;37;48;11 - 00;38;07;10 Unknown So I made a stronger application come the second round. And I was fortunate enough to get in. But it's a long way of me of saying I, through a LinkedIn outreach to another veteran, ever veteran, patient forward. That's how I was able to find that open. Yeah, no thanks for sharing that. And there's a couple anomalies inside that before we, transition to close, it's, calling out the distinction between a networking. 00;38;07;10 - 00;38;28;07 Unknown You know, you can get your networking game, improve your networking game, you know, if it's important. Networking and splitting hairs on this. Networking is networking where you're just reaching out and you're trying to establish a basis of connections. And I think that's the distinction. And if we kind of split hairs on words, what you really trying to do is make connections through networking. 00;38;28;10 - 00;38;54;11 Unknown Right? So networking is a process in my mind. Connections is the intended outcome. I want to connect with people that are in a space that I want to get to, or in this case, using a channel like LinkedIn or social media or some other avenue that's available to you, email, text buddies, you know, the buddy system. There's a pass through at some point to where a tool like in this case LinkedIn, becomes almost critical because not everybody uses it. 00;38;54;11 - 00;39;16;05 Unknown Some people will know to set it up, but they don't. As you may have experienced, some of those non-response is include people. Just don't look at it. It's not meaning they're ignoring the messages that come in, but, like anything else, they could also be overwhelmed with the number of questions they get. But it is important that we remember to reach out to those to give people an opportunity to pay it forward. 00;39;16;05 - 00;39;35;16 Unknown Because I love that you said that. Not everybody knows how. Like, what can I do? So as we transition and close out, what are some of the things that you want to leave with the listeners of, you know, not only what you going to do, but what what do you what advice do you give others to to help them understand what they can do to help? 00;39;35;21 - 00;39;56;09 Unknown Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's a good reminder to ourselves that just remember, like we used to be in those other people's shoes initially in terms of getting out sometimes, like whether you're a decade out in terms of the transition or maybe five years or maybe four, maybe just recently. Just remember, in terms of where the other people are coming from, in terms of whether it's a transition and they're going to ask questions. 00;39;56;12 - 00;40;13;02 Unknown And of course, you know, we may be a little impatient in terms of the way they ask questions, maybe a little too direct. There's a there's in the corporate past that we needed. But, you know, we need people where they are. And so I would encourage for folks just to continue to pay it forward, because I would like to think that for where we are today, it's a product. 00;40;13;02 - 00;40;26;18 Unknown We're a product of other people's input that are paying it forward are those who took the time to mentor us, but it's going to pay for, I mean, that's what we're here for. That's what you sign up for in terms of the services to, you know, so it's a is a community service and so committed to the team. 00;40;26;23 - 00;40;46;10 Unknown And so just because we need a uniform, yes. There's an element of we have left the service. But it doesn't really we don't really need it because intrinsically it's but if you've been a part of it, give up our last word. So if you do pay it forward for at least for those who got out, continue to pay it forward and then for those who are transitioning, yeah, I would say classically. 00;40;46;13 - 00;41;09;20 Unknown Yeah. Number one, define your success and be honest yourself. It's okay not to know. And the second thing, for those who are thinking about the practicality out number two is to talk with veterans and different in the transition, especially from. So that way you get a holistic approach of being informed of what it's actually like. So I would say those who recently got out, those were a few years out and those who got out like a ten, like a decade or so more. 00;41;09;20 - 00;41;29;16 Unknown So that way you can have a holistic approach. And the third aspect would just be continue to network and start with the concentric circle model of like start with the family, friends, your former teammates, college alumni that applies to you, and going through at least an outreach. So that way you can help validate, the industry and your own success from those conversations. 00;41;29;18 - 00;42;06;21 Unknown Yeah. It's solid, that sound I will sprinkle in. The three lessons learned also can be universally applicable to this, right? So trust but verify when people are coming to you and they're asking some things and hey, I did this. You trust that they they have because this leads to the next thing. It's okay to sometimes say no and push back on people to do a little bit more diligent effort into preparing, because if you don't do anything and you ask somebody for time, it can lead to being overwhelmed towards, that's maybe why you're not getting the help and support that you expect when people are capable of paying it forward, but sometimes give you the 00;42;06;21 - 00;42;26;10 Unknown impression that they're not because, you know, and that's the last thing is optimistic attitude you expressed that you talked about in 2023. You tried to apply or you applied. Try to get in through all of it because you were wanting to now experience what it was going to be able to provide, and you didn't get the results that you had hoped for. 00;42;26;10 - 00;42;43;19 Unknown So you get back at it and you came back, and now here you are. So great lessons to be learned, great advice, how that you're given. Thank you so much for making time today. Appreciate. You know thank you Chris. And yeah, for those I mean I'm not sure everyone dropped my LinkedIn when I happy to connect with other veterans in thermite LinkedIn and more than happy to help out. 00;42;43;21 - 00;42;58;16 Unknown Okay. Got it. Yeah. So, how we how he's information contact details will be in the podcast description. All right. Howie, appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thanks, Chris. Cardi one keep moving forward.…

MAVEN

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Be the Bridge: SMA (R) Jack Tilley, 12th Sergeant Major of the Army 41:06

5 weeks тому41:06

41:06

After serving 36 years in the US Army from 1966 to 2004, with a two-year break in between, SMA Tilley shares invaluable insights into how his military service shaped his life, allowed him to care for others, and inspired his ongoing mission of service through business and nonprofit organizations. He emphasizes the importance of bringing people together and discusses his deep passion for addressing one of our community's most pressing challenges—mental health. SMA Tilley shares a heartfelt story about the power of supporting one another and the impact of collective action the role hope plays in driving meaningful change. From stories that bring smiles to discussions on the traits of effective leaders, the value of teamwork, and the importance of planning and transition, it was an honor to hear from SMA Tilley. It is a rare opportunity to hear experiences of history through a personal perspective and we’re grateful for the time SMA Tilley shared with us. https://www.linkedin.com/in/12thsma-jack-tilley/ American Freedom Foundation - https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-freedom-foundation/posts/?feedView=all American Freedom Foundation - https://americanfreedomfoundation.org/ Your Next Mission Podcast - https://www.linkedin.com/company/your-next-mission/posts/?feedView=all Your Next Mission Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/6j5iMzkVBDX4XjgTVQiXOu?si=3168463fdc764529 ------------------------------------------------------------- Podcast Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;42;27 Unknown You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by retired 12 Sergeant Major of the Army Jack Tilley. After serving 36 years in the US Army from 1966 to 2004, with a two year break in between Saar Major till, he shares invaluable insights into how his military service shaped his life, allowed him to care for others and inspired his ongoing mission of service through business and nonprofit organizations. 00;00;43;00 - 00;01;03;01 Unknown He emphasizes the importance of bringing people together, and discusses his deep passion for addressing one of our community's most pressing challenges mental health. Sergeant Major Tilley shares a heartfelt story about the power of supporting one another and the impact of collective action and the role hope plays in driving meaningful change. From stories that bring smiles to discussions on the traits of effective leaders. 00;01;03;07 - 00;01;21;06 Unknown The value of teamwork and the importance of planning and transition. It was an honor to hear from Sergeant Major Tilley. It is a rare opportunity to hear experiences of history through a personal perspective, and we're grateful for the time, Sergeant Major Tilley shared with us. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. Let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. 00;01;21;07 - 00;01;35;14 Unknown As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family Sergeant Major till these contact details are in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. 00;01;35;16 - 00;01;59;02 Unknown SA major. How are you? Hey! I'm so pumped up here today. I'm excited. Yeah. For all those out there listening, we we almost forgot to hit record. We were going on a good path. Just what we were talking about already. So both of us enthusiastic about being here in the presence of each other to talk about some of the some of the things that are important today and always have been and kind of being transformative and thinking about the future and what we can do to work together. 00;01;59;05 - 00;02;16;07 Unknown So, so our major, you, 30 plus years in the service and you just got done talking about why you join, if you wouldn't mind just going back and rehashing that? Sure. Absolutely. Well, you know, I spent 36 years in the service. People say. They say over 30 years. No, no, I want to make sure you're missing 36 years of service. 00;02;16;09 - 00;02;34;24 Unknown Yeah, I, yeah, I, I wasn't planning on joining the military. In fact, I was, I always tell people I was a terrible kid. I had no direction in life. And I remember when I. When I graduate, I. And I did pretty good. I graduated 117, but I was sitting on the Columbia River and we was all talking about, you know, different things. 00;02;34;24 - 00;02;56;16 Unknown And I was drinking the Olympia Beer Day and somebody said, hey, what are you going to do with your life? I said, well, I don't know. And the guy says, hey, you want to go to college? And I said, hey, guys like me don't go to college. Low self-esteem. Nothing's going right. No direction of life. And then the next guy that it was, I think it was Prentiss Boykin, unfortunately got killed in Vietnam. 00;02;56;16 - 00;03;12;21 Unknown But he said, let's join the military. And I said, sure. Why not? I had no idea that was fighting a war. And so I went basic. I did jump school. And then six months from joining the military, I was, fighting in the streets of, of Vietnam. And in fact, I was in the Tet Offensive in 68. 00;03;12;21 - 00;03;31;15 Unknown That's another story back, back a long time ago. But the big, big change in my life real quick. Oh, I bet. And quick to when we had first talked on your next mission podcast with when you and I were talking about that, you had talked about getting in and then you had gone to Vietnam and you'd come back and you'd gotten out for a short stint. 00;03;31;19 - 00;03;55;01 Unknown What was the decision behind that? Well, a couple of things. One is that, I had a commander that really made me mad, angry, and sometimes in life you let people affect your performance. You know, you said, well, despite you, I'm going to quit this job. Dumbest decision I ever, ever made. So I had a commander that, I didn't like, and I thought I could never deal with a guys like, in the military. 00;03;55;02 - 00;04;15;14 Unknown I said, that's it. I got out and I stayed out about two years, and when I was out, I never really fit in. I mean, I always missed the military. I had a great time in the military. Military was good to me. And so I stayed out about two years and, and I used in fact, I actually drew up the I drove up to Fort Lewis one time on, I was going to, Seattle. 00;04;15;14 - 00;04;34;12 Unknown So I stopped at Fort Lewis and watched these guys train and and do all that stuff, and, you know, and I went back home and I told my wife, I said, jeez. You know, I wouldn't mind going back in service. I mean, it was good for me. And so I went and seen a recruiter and he said, hey, look, you know, you can come back any time you want to do that. 00;04;34;16 - 00;04;53;28 Unknown As a staff sergeant, I got to be a staff sergeant about two and a half years in the military. And so I talked to him, and I left at about, I think it was about 2 or 3 weeks later, he called me on the phone. He said, hey, look, if you come back and within the next 30 days or when you are, if you decide to come back after that, you'll come back in as he want. 00;04;54;00 - 00;05;09;20 Unknown I said, what he said the policy. I said, what do you mean to say right now? You can come back to your, you know, the rank you got lose all your time of grade. But, but if you wait that one month, you come back as a private. I'll start all over again. I said, okay, and about three days later, I was down there at the recruiting station. 00;05;09;26 - 00;05;32;23 Unknown I went over to maps, you know, signed back and did all the testing in and then, you know, got my date to go back into the military. So I came back in. Is this I gotta tell you one funny story. So I got to Fort Jackson, and, and I just fell in with all the privates. And so we're March around doing all the stuff, and then with the, clothing, got my clothing issues, got my uniforms and all that stuff. 00;05;32;23 - 00;05;52;02 Unknown And I was a staff sergeant and a rank on. And so I think it was right after I got my, on my, fatigues at the time, I, first started calling. It's our winner. Is is Tilley. I see us first. Are aren't you a staff sergeant? I said, yeah, he said, then put your rank on. Put the rank up there. 00;05;52;02 - 00;06;10;14 Unknown I said, okay, so I put my rank on, fell back into the formation and there's one private looked at me, says, how did you get to be a staff? Well, that drill sergeant said I was marching real good. And so he promoted. Yeah. Oh yeah. But I had a great time there. So yeah, it's good one. The, 00;06;10;16 - 00;06;27;03 Unknown Well, I have to believe because I, when I went through basic not to reminisce too much about this stuff because it's not where we're going. But there was a, there was a, a man that came in, he was a specialist, and we didn't understand it. And we we kind of figured it out later on how to how to use that. 00;06;27;03 - 00;06;53;29 Unknown So did that how did that affect how everybody else was learning around you at that point? Well, it, you know, I tell you, I didn't have much to do with him. You know, I marched from point A to point B and process. And so they didn't really and I started pulling, CQ at the time, but I didn't they asked me a lot of questions, and I tried to do all I could to help as much as I could, but, you know, that was, you know, you've seen in the first week or so, I think it was a week and a half that you stayed there and then you process out. 00;06;54;06 - 00;07;14;09 Unknown So not, not really, not a whole lot. Yeah. For that time, I didn't have a lot, a lot of interaction with those guys. Okay. Yeah. I was just curious that that kind of had some, some connection later down the road. On how rank helps or hurts learning or, you know, this is probably no one's going to believe me. 00;07;14;10 - 00;07;36;13 Unknown I was never worried about being promoted. I just thought, you are what you are. And everybody, I always tell people you everybody climbs a ladder, and you just get off at different rings in the ladder. And, if I got out of the Army's a staff sergeant, I'd be. I've been content if I got out of the Army as a sergeant first class, I'd have been content, but I never really, 00;07;36;15 - 00;07;59;14 Unknown I just always wanted to do my job and work as hard as I could with the people around. You know, I told people that before, and they probably saying that now. That's baloney. You probably a politician or something. I'm the farthest thing away from a politician. But I just always wanted to work hard because the army, the army, quite frankly, changed my life and allowed me to grow up and develop and see so many things and so many different people I've met throughout my life. 00;07;59;14 - 00;08;15;10 Unknown I, I always used, I told people, even I wrote a book, but in the book I said I went from Vietnam. When I went to Vietnam, I went from 18 to 55. And I grew that much during during war. And, so, you know, the Army was good to me, and I just wanted to do the best I could. 00;08;15;11 - 00;08;32;00 Unknown In fact, we can talk about this later. I never wanted to be the sergeant. I did the Army. I just wanted to be. I was going to get out work for USA because I was working on finding me a job right there, but, yeah, I never, I think people that, people are that, you know, you everybody wants to be promoted. 00;08;32;00 - 00;08;58;16 Unknown And I understand that too. But I think sometimes people get so, so motivated about, hey, I want to move to the next level that they're not very good at the level they're at, if that makes sense, because I'm concerned about, hey, I want to be the boss. Well, to be the boss or to be in charge, you got to do your job the you know better than anybody else, or work with the team and show people that you can develop and motivate and get people to do the best they can within their organization. 00;08;58;18 - 00;09;18;21 Unknown And the ones that the people at throughout my military and in civilian life, the one the people that I run into that are more concerned about promotions or advancement aren't necessarily good leaders. I think sometimes. So you mentioned that and I just I hadn't planned on this. It spurred a thought in my head on focus, focusing on the present. 00;09;18;21 - 00;09;43;20 Unknown Become the master of your craft, what you're doing now and then, things will take care of themselves is kind of how I'm oversimplifying what you're saying. That's exactly what I mean. Just to stay focused in your life, I, I've talked to a lot of people, about this. Stay in your lane of responsibility. And as you get, as you move up in whatever organization is, your lane will open up a little bit more, you'll have more responsibility, and you can help more people. 00;09;43;22 - 00;10;03;28 Unknown But the key to success in, any job that you're doing is people. How do you help the people that are around you? How do you make how do you make them successful? My job as a as a leader or a small business owner or even just outside the army? It's not about me. It's about how do I make the people that I'm working with more successful so they can take my job? 00;10;04;01 - 00;10;22;23 Unknown You know, they sort of push me out, you know? So it's about it's about people and their families and and treating them with dignity, respect and, and just getting the best at them. And another thing I, I like the dog. You see this. But the other thing is how do you motivate people that are around you to get the best out of them? 00;10;22;26 - 00;10;42;08 Unknown You know what? Everybody is motivated by something different. You know, some people you can pat on the back, some people got a kick in the backside. But how do you get the best out of those people? And and as a leader, you've got to look at those people, see where they fit. You know, where, you know, I may not be the best mechanic, but I'm a good cook, you know what I mean? 00;10;42;08 - 00;11;07;08 Unknown I might not be the best salesman, but I'm the best. Whatever. But you can find out where they fit in in life and and, you know, sort of pat them on the back and push them up and, and stand them up and make them feel good about yourself. No, I like that. And thank you for that because you're however however that came to you, it's still how it is today for many of us, if not all of us, that they they kind of split up to two different types of people. 00;11;07;08 - 00;11;33;26 Unknown You got some that believe that and understand that to be for what it is. And they they wholeheartedly invested in that mindset of understanding that so much that they it's they embody it. And then you have ones that have more of a theoretical understanding on what that means. And then it's awkward. Sometimes it's clumsy as a leader to be able to try to do those things, which is that reciprocating lesson that's learned is I'm learning how to become a good leader by having been put in a position to lead you. 00;11;33;28 - 00;11;51;16 Unknown And so we're going to make mistakes together, and then we're going to just kind of reciprocate that effort to to learn. Either way. How does that how does that look in today's world when we're thinking about the first thing that you had mentioned, we're we're conditioned to focus on where we are so we can be mission ready, paying attention to what's going on. 00;11;51;18 - 00;12;12;19 Unknown But then as we get near transition and I'm we're going to jump around a little bit, we're going to when we get near near transition, we still embody that same mindset. We're not looking ahead to prepare for that next step, which is the hardest. Yeah. Well the problem is and I'm glad you're talking about transition. The problem in transition is, is you don't want to pull away. 00;12;12;21 - 00;12;26;05 Unknown You want to keep doing your job. And you say, man, they can't they can't do that job without me. And I've got to be there every day. In reality, that you're going to, you know, a lot of I can't remember the actual number, you know, a couple hundred thousand, I guess, get out of the military every year. 00;12;26;08 - 00;12;42;03 Unknown But, what you've got to do is you you need to start that transition process about two years out. And I think what happens is people don't do that. So what do you do in that two years out? Well, finish up your degree. If you got an associate's get a bachelors. If you got a bachelors, get a master's. 00;12;42;08 - 00;13;04;02 Unknown So focus on all that stuff and make sure that if you have any bills, pay all your bills, put money aside, know where you want to live, you know, start, have a good resume. There's so many things that you ought to do. I think the people that, that don't transition very well is the ones that wait until the last 30 days or the last 60 days, to get out of the service. 00;13;04;02 - 00;13;24;03 Unknown And they're scrambling, don't know what they're going to do, and they're confused. And I'm going to say one more thing, too, is, is that, I've talked a lot about on my show, on a podcast about the fact that we have about 200,000 people incarcerated that are veterans, and about 86,000 are homeless, but more than 125,000 and probably that number is a little larger now. 00;13;24;06 - 00;13;47;14 Unknown But more than 125,000 and taken a life by suicide. And you go back and start thinking about transition. Why do they do those kind of things? It's because they don't fit back into society and they're struggling and there's nobody to talk to. And, for the people a little less than a day, there's a lot of veterans out there that, that are your friend or your brother or your sister that'll listen to you and try to help you out as much as you can. 00;13;47;14 - 00;14;08;15 Unknown So talk to them. You're not alone. Everybody goes through struggles. You, me and everybody else. Reach out to somebody and talk to them about whatever those issues are. Special on that transition. And then the last thing I just say about transition, I, I was very lucky because I retired as a sergeant major of the Army. And so I know there's a lot of doors open for me that there may not be open for a lot of people. 00;14;08;16 - 00;14;35;26 Unknown I understand that because I'm certainly not going to be anybody else. But the fact of the matter is, I used to look for companies that had, leadership that are veterans, maybe an owner of a company or an a senior leadership within that organization. And if you can find those, even Google those on the, on the website, say, you know, veteran owned companies or people who had a veteran lead or whatever, reach out to those guys and, and make sure you reach out and tell them about your military service and charm you. 00;14;35;26 - 00;14;56;07 Unknown 214 and have a resume and and, and they'll help you out as much as they can. But you may not. Again, going back to where you fit, you may not be a good fit for that organization, but I guarantee you they'll probably help you go somewhere else. I'm going to kind of just unload the list of things in my head at this point that hopefully we can touch on is, how do you determine the fit? 00;14;56;09 - 00;15;11;20 Unknown A lot of the struggle is is deciding that what I did is what I need to do in the future. And we we know differently. We know that you don't have to do that. You can go ahead and figure out how to do something different, what you want to do. It's an opportunity to recreate who you want to be, what you want to do. 00;15;11;22 - 00;15;40;16 Unknown And then you talked about big picture early on in the conversation. You're talking about those that can understand the big picture. That's an acquired skill set that is done through connecting with others by having the mentors, which we talked about before. So on those two topics themselves, when you're saying two years out, how do you learn about what you yourself is going to need if if you think that you don't need it, hopefully that translates. 00;15;40;19 - 00;15;56;23 Unknown No, no. I said, well, I think the key to success, I think that, yeah, but we talked about a minute ago, we talked about before too, is you gotta have a mentor. So I tell you, I always said you need to have 2 or 3 mentors. So I have somebody that's already been in the service that got out of the service that you can reach out and talk to about. 00;15;56;23 - 00;16;18;06 Unknown Hey, look, I'm thinking about doing this or I'm thinking to do that and just sort of talk about those kind of things, before you get out of the service. But. And then the other thing I do is, I talk to my wife a lot. I've been married. I'm married a long time anyway. But I talk to my wife about what we need to do as a family because, you know, you had a team in the military of all these people around you. 00;16;18;06 - 00;16;35;13 Unknown But when you get out of the team that you have is your family to. And you got to make sure they're involved in that discussion. And then the other thing is, is, a lot of people set expectation expectations, I think just a little bit too, you know, they want to get out, make, 2 or $300,000. 00;16;35;15 - 00;16;53;19 Unknown Again, it goes back to where do you fit in? How do you grow? How do you develop? How are you preparing yourself for success? Just because you, as a senior NCO in the Army or in the military, Navy, Marine Corps, whatever. But, senior is your senior officer doesn't mean that you're going to have the ideal job when you get out of the military. 00;16;53;23 - 00;17;14;20 Unknown You have to go back and and prove yourself again that you have those qualifications. So, yeah, it's there's a it's it's, because of what the military teaches you, you have a lot of leadership, a lot of a lot of things that you can share with any organization. So I think that's a that's a strength for, all the people that served in the military. 00;17;14;22 - 00;17;40;14 Unknown Yeah. Thanks for that. And congratulations. Is it 58 years? 55. It was five years this year. But who's counting? The 709 58. Congratulation. You may be out of here now. You know, I, I tell you what, I tell people this all the time, too. Is that, nobody is successful by themselves. I have came home so many times and told my wife, you know, I can't believe what this guy did today. 00;17;40;17 - 00;18;03;09 Unknown And she'd say, well, Jack, I thought you did that once. And I'd say, well, wait a minute, that was different. Well, the answer is you need somebody that gives you checks and balances. You know, you get. I used to tell people all the time that every time you're promoted, your head swells a little bit, you know, in your head gets and you think you're smarter and smarter and smarter. 00;18;03;12 - 00;18;19;19 Unknown And the answer is you're no different than you was yesterday. You just got a different job. I get it. I'll tell you another funny story. I was, down at Fort Knox when I was, competing for to start my the Army and I. And I was a Centcom sergeant major, so I was working at a four star level there. 00;18;19;22 - 00;18;38;18 Unknown And, I went into this conference, and they had my seat all the way down at the end of the table. Not you, I don't care. And so I bring up, talking points and things I think you ought to do is the armored community and that sort of. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's good. Yeah. That's good. That just, you know, that sort of was nice to me and all that stuff. 00;18;38;20 - 00;18;56;14 Unknown Well, that evening they announced that I was a sergeant major in the Army, and I was the next election to start major. So the next day I came to the conference. My chair was right dead in the center. And everything I said was the smartest guy in the world. The answer was I hadn't changed from yesterday. All right. 00;18;56;19 - 00;19;13;03 Unknown So, the if you want to be a good leader, be a good listener and be a good communicator and be able to say, hey, I was wrong about this is probably a better way to do it. And when somebody comes up with a good idea and it's not your idea, give him credit for. Hey, that's a great idea. 00;19;13;03 - 00;19;31;22 Unknown Let's do that. She's okay. Let's go. Let's move out. Don't be afraid. I mean, again, we're successful because all the people around us, you know, use their brains, you know, use their ideas in your thought. And if you do that, then you'll grow as a team and you'll develop, and it'll get better and better and better and better all the way through there. 00;19;31;22 - 00;19;50;13 Unknown So I've always I was, when I first got to be to start, maybe there's two things I really wanted to work on real quickly. One was, I wanted to bring all senior in sales to one location, at down at Fort Bliss. And I said, hey, we're going to have a conference are meeting, and somebody says, who's going to pay for it? 00;19;50;13 - 00;20;12;17 Unknown I said, well, I don't care. And then the second thing I want to do is start a NCO and soldier of the year program for the United States Army, for the Army bring Army. And I was able to accomplish that. The first year or so in the Army. But, I put all those senior and chosen together in one location, and it was just, one star and above, but all in one location. 00;20;12;17 - 00;20;30;15 Unknown And they asked a guard reserve and all the rest of them, and I did that. So, so we could build a team, a stronger team. And we we did a golf ID event. We went out to dinner and we did. We got stronger and stronger as we went along and we really worked with each other. So I thought it it and they're still doing that now or continuing to do it. 00;20;30;15 - 00;20;58;22 Unknown So I think it builds a stronger team anyway. It does. And it was obviously I think you and I are similar in that sense. The value of bringing people together is sometimes uncomfortable. It may be, when when you are indicated like what you said, if you find yourself without saying it, but doing it is to be the most humble person in the room where you can hear feedback and you can see that other people have great ideas and you're willing to share that credit or give that credit instead of taking it, then it becomes simpler. 00;20;58;27 - 00;21;17;17 Unknown The further the further you get away from actually have to decide or do things, because the team around you is is activating its where everything gets set as the example of what you want to achieve as a leader, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah. No I'm sorry. The I think the other thing is that they have to trust you. 00;21;17;19 - 00;21;30;19 Unknown If they don't trust you, then they're not going to support you. And they got to believe that, you know, if I say something as a leader, if I say something, I'm going to do it. If I say, hey, I'm going to be here at 8:00, a little small thing about 8:00, I'm going to be there at 750, probably. 00;21;30;21 - 00;21;49;26 Unknown Right? Yeah. But if you put the word out, if you say something, do it. And if you can't do it, go back and tell them, hey, look, I tried to do this, I couldn't accomplishment, and this is the reason why we can go with a different route. But here's where I am right now. And I think a lot of people, just listen. 00;21;50;03 - 00;22;03;05 Unknown Yeah, I got it and then move out. I used to, when I used to travel, I used to have a couple of trip coordinators. They'd be with you and they'd take notes. Everything that anybody put out. And when we got back, I'd say, okay, what's, you know, what's what do we have to do? What do we have to accomplish? 00;22;03;12 - 00;22;22;04 Unknown And I'll be damned, they they better get every one of those accomplished. At least go back and say, look, we're working on this is where we're at. Here's what we're going to do. And somebody called, the officer said, I have a problem this summer. I wouldn't just drop it. I'd get them to the right location and then, write it down, somebody to go back, say, hey, if we accomplish this, you know what? 00;22;22;04 - 00;22;42;01 Unknown It's finished. Come back and tell me what's going on. And I think a lot of times somebody will have an issue and they'll put it out there and they'll just sort of say, okay, that's your issue. I'm done. You're not done. You're not done until it's accomplished. Even though you gave it to somebody else. Reminds me of the story that I think I shared with you because of what you just said. 00;22;42;08 - 00;23;01;06 Unknown You know, you're going to if you're going to be the good listener and you're going to take in the input, you better act on it. So they see that it's actually, so in the early early 90s, I was in Korea and I was doing the, the soldier of the quarter, soldiers of the month, been going all the way up to the, you know, company, battalion, brigade, so on and so forth. 00;23;01;06 - 00;23;21;19 Unknown While I earned, earned a spot to have dinner with Sergeant Major, Army kid. Oh, yeah. You get squared away guy. Yeah. So it and, you know, I was allowed to bring two soldiers with me. So I found, you know, the two that that I wanted to bring with me. And they shut down the dining facility after hours where it was, me sergeant made an Army kid. 00;23;21;26 - 00;23;43;13 Unknown So major mixology and, I was just playing golf with him. Great. Go away. Yeah, just play golf for the last week, I was. It's amazing. I'll. I'll send you a picture if you'll take it. I'll send you a picture of us together. Back in 1999. Sure. Yeah, that'd be great. So we were sitting there and he asked the question, you know, so what? 00;23;43;16 - 00;24;01;09 Unknown What can I do for you? Some along the lines. What can I do for you? Or, you know, what's on your mind? Something like that. And the short story is, you know, the camp that we were on had a real small, fitness facility. Jim had 1 or 2 things that had the universal weights, you know, the stuff that you saw in high school back in those days. 00;24;01;09 - 00;24;17;27 Unknown Well, I asked, you have free weights if we can get some dumbbells, that would be great. And I compared it to the camp that was next to us, who's obviously had more budget, whatever. So he listen, I gave the example and I'm not going to tell you what the example is because I don't want to embarrass myself. But, you know, he they were confused. 00;24;17;27 - 00;24;33;24 Unknown They scoffed at it. I could tell now. I could tell what they were. What they heard was ridiculous. But the next day, the lieutenant or, XO come over and or the platoon leader came over and and called me out of formation. So I came over to him, says, let's go. Getting the Humvees is, where are we going, sir? 00;24;33;24 - 00;24;51;03 Unknown And he says, we're going to get your weights. And he said it in such a way that I, I didn't see it as the thing that I had hoped to happen coming, come to fruition. So, so as we're driving, we're going downtown Korea to try to find a place to buy the dumbbells. And I asked him, I said, so how many we get? 00;24;51;03 - 00;25;11;10 Unknown And he goes, well, we have $50. That's like, okay, all right. So we ended up being able to afford one dumbbell, which we ended up bringing back. And we kind of it didn't serve its purpose, but it was the running joke as to, you know, careful what you say. Prepare the UN, but also know that somebody worth their salt is going to follow through on that commitment. 00;25;11;10 - 00;25;27;27 Unknown So the thing that I learned is he felt he followed through well, the thing about it, the other thing is, is take good notes. Could have been when you go back to their ask those questions. Hey, last time I was here, you had, this, this and this, and. Hey, what's the status of that now? Yeah, the, 00;25;27;29 - 00;25;48;26 Unknown Yeah, I used to follow that people to go wild. And how do you remember that? Well, you know, we keep notes and stuff. So when I come back, I'm going to make sure I ask those questions. So. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sergeant major, I got to tell you funny story about him when he was, he come to Germany when I was a division soccer major and we hosted him, and, so we took him around and showed him the division, did all that stuff. 00;25;48;26 - 00;26;08;29 Unknown And so we got to, Graff and beer, gave him a briefing and all that stuff. He's. He's really a great guy. And, so we got ready to go that they had these green old German bus, vans. Most of the time they wouldn't run very good. So I say, Sergeant Major, I'll see you later. Got him in the van, closed the door, and drivers tried to start the vehicle. 00;26;08;29 - 00;26;25;02 Unknown I wouldn't start, so. Oh, I can't believe it. And so I said, hey, guys, Sergeant major, don't worry about it. We'll get you. Go. We'll push this van and get it going. So I had all the sergeant major back there pushing and we started pushing. And I looked at my left and there were Sergeant major. Can't push him wrong with me. 00;26;25;04 - 00;26;43;00 Unknown It's nice. And it started up. He jumped in. See you guys later, Dick. So yeah, he's quite a guy. He's really a good guy. Yeah, it was a good time. It's a good time. So since we're talking about it, maybe some folks listening aren't as familiar, but what what is the role? Or at least when you were disarming an army. 00;26;43;01 - 00;27;03;28 Unknown What what was the role and and what what did it serve for the community? Well, first of all, the sergeant, the army, it was the voice of the noncommissioned officer corps. So I routinely testified in front of Congress, usually once or twice a year. And when Congress were to have issues or concerns about stuff, he'd come down through my office and we'd, you know, check it out, see what the issues so that's the first thing. 00;27;04;03 - 00;27;24;27 Unknown And also inform the secretary of the Army, Secretary of Defense, the chief of staff, the Army, the division staff or the, the Pentagon staff there, or the Army staff about what's going on. And I traveled all the time, and I traveled, I think it was 800,000 miles and three and a half years. And what I do is I go to all these, installations and talk to not just senior NCO. 00;27;25;03 - 00;27;43;27 Unknown It's all soldiers and take good notes and find out what the concerns was within the army. And, that's what I did. I sort of flowed information back and forth, you know, what's the issues? And and it worked out pretty good. Biggest complaint is always the same thing. It hadn't changed a day. The biggest complaint was money. 00;27;43;29 - 00;28;04;25 Unknown Oh. At the time, an E9 would make, I think, I think base pay for an E9 was, $3,000 and $31 a month. That was his base pay. A captain made more than him. So during my period of time, I started by the Army. We went from, I think it was 3430 $400 to over $5,000, base pay. 00;28;04;25 - 00;28;22;20 Unknown So we got a pretty good chunk of rise. But it wasn't just them. We had, a targeted pay from E4 or five, six, seven, 8 or 9. And what I always thought was a buy went from 4 to 5. I should get 5 or 6. Seven or dollars, pay a 6 to 7, same thing. And so we worked real hard on pay and quality of life stuff. 00;28;22;20 - 00;28;50;19 Unknown That was really my focus in the time you were in. I mean, that's a significant timeline. So if we can talk about readiness and how significant events changed the trajectory of our readiness. So you were Saam rated Army from 2000 to 2004. So before before 2000, you stepped into the role. And then what occurred during that timeline, can you share with us the significance of what you now had to undertake? 00;28;50;22 - 00;29;14;12 Unknown Well, when I first got there, you know, I got into 2000, but, you know, of course 911 happened. That was, you know, when the plane hit the Pentagon and, we went to war. That was a, you know, one of the biggest things that happened to me, in fact, in fact, I'll never forget that day I was sitting in my office, and, David, Chad, which was the public affairs called me, says, you got to turn on the TV. 00;29;14;12 - 00;29;29;11 Unknown And I did, and I turned to watch the, plane hit up in New York, and I went out the office. I said, hey, look, this is not a mistake. Something's going on. I had to go to Fort Meyer to speak to somebody. And when I was going to Fort Myers and I finished talking, I was coming down the hill. 00;29;29;11 - 00;29;51;25 Unknown That plane actually hit. And then I went back over there, went back into the Pentagon, made sure all the everybody was out of their offices. And I went around to the front of the, of the building where the plane had hit. And I went back in with General and Austin. We sort of worked our way, to the, the wreckage there and probably about 30 or 40ft or so. 00;29;51;25 - 00;30;12;23 Unknown Smoke it. We couldn't go any farther because we want to see if we can get anybody out. And then of course, there was mass confusion. And then we we came back out and people were running everywhere. Anyway, it was just a terrible day for our country. You know what bothers me when I talk about 911? What bothers me is, is, how quickly we forgot about what happened on that day. 00;30;12;25 - 00;30;34;20 Unknown And, the lives are lost, not just, you know, Pennsylvania, New York and the Pentagon, but it's, you know, for 3 or 4 days in a life, we, the country, the country, I think, pulled together real close with everybody. And we all wanted to help each other out. And we're all Americans and all that stuff. And then after 3 or 4 days, we all sort of went our separate ways again. 00;30;34;23 - 00;30;51;21 Unknown And it was just again, it was just a tough time, not just 911, you know, we got an award we're deploying, you know, a lot of stuff. And so the rest of my time in the military is usually deployed in and going and checking on troops and see how everybody was doing over there. So I stay pretty active, like I said, traveled about 8 or 9000 miles. 00;30;51;21 - 00;31;21;28 Unknown But it was a blast. Half of my time in Sergeant Major, I was a little rough. Yeah, I can imagine. And thanks for your leadership before, after and during. Of course, because it I think when I had first met you, you know, it hit me because I, you know, after being out for as long as I have there's a, there is a, a point to which you, you feel disconnected on certain things, reminding you of what you used to do and who used to do it with, and those types of things. 00;31;21;28 - 00;31;51;07 Unknown And the subtle reminder, especially generational. So in my era, getting out in the 90s, you know, it's it becomes more challenging to be more connected to where, where things are today and things like that. And so it served as a subtle reminder of connection on the level of difficulty of what you and many others had experienced during that time line, but how it shifted the attention to to be more prepared and, and then focus on the things that we had learned through those last 15 to 20 years to transform and become the force that we, we, we want to be. 00;31;51;08 - 00;32;15;23 Unknown We need to be and then take it into transition. So as you've now been out a couple of decades, taking that, taking that lesson in those lessons and what you're doing now, let's let's talk about that. On how how it drives you to continue to want to do what you do. Well, the, well, I, I don't know, I, I love the Army. 00;32;15;23 - 00;32;40;28 Unknown And I think, again, I said before the Army changed my life and helped me so much. And it's all part of my family will always be part of my family. And so I want to do all I can to help veterans and families as much as I can till the day I die. And there's a lot of people just out there struggling, and they just don't, sometimes they sometimes they struggle and they don't know why, and they don't know why they don't fit in. 00;32;41;00 - 00;32;58;05 Unknown And, they don't know who to talk to about whatever the issues are. So from my little perspective, you know, doing our podcast or doing our hiring events or whatever, I just want to do all I can to help the veteran community. And I said it already, we as a veteran community, we need to pull together and put our arms together. 00;32;58;05 - 00;33;14;03 Unknown Whether or not you spent three years or are 36 years in the military, put our arms together and sort of talk to each other and help each other out as much as we can, because I know I get it. I tell people all the time, I'll help you with everything. You know, everything, anything, anything I can help you with, I'll certainly. 00;33;14;03 - 00;33;30;14 Unknown I'll be out. Don't think I won't do it. Gives me a bunch of money. I'll only give it to my grandkids and stuff. There. There's nothing wrong with that money now, but, But I just. I just think we gotta work together as a team, and I think we're missing the bullets sometimes. I came back backing up here a little bit. 00;33;30;16 - 00;33;50;03 Unknown I came back out of Vietnam, and I had anger issues for about 5 or 6 years where I struggled just fitting in. And it wouldn't take much to do, to set me off about stuff. And so that was me. And I know there's a lot of men and women that get out that just struggle and just try to find the right space where they fit in. 00;33;50;03 - 00;34;14;07 Unknown And, and I just sometimes I worry that we're just not doing enough, but we're not doing enough because we won't pull together. We just got to pull together a lot more. Yeah, and thanks for that. And that. And you're right. And then when you look at some of the I mean, the statistics help support, I guess putting something in a perspective that allows us it's tangible, right? 00;34;14;07 - 00;34;36;01 Unknown When we have a number and something hard to look at, it's the intangible things that are very challenging, you know, with over 47,000 organizations focused on a military affiliated community, what are your thoughts on how to bring people together when there's so many choices out there for, I mean, how would a service member that isn't doesn't have a mentor or hasn't thought about these things? 00;34;36;01 - 00;34;58;16 Unknown Maybe it's early career young enlisted junior junior officers, whoever. How do we make a decision or determine where to go first? With so many options? Yeah, that that really makes it tough. You got to do what's right for you. However, I think, somebody like me go to your next mission podcast on me, follow me on podcast, listen to the podcast, do whatever. 00;34;58;18 - 00;35;14;13 Unknown We're we're growing every day. We're growing. We probably get it. We probably get 100 followers a week or something like that. But, we're growing every day, and I guarantee you, if we can get. You know, I've always said to everybody, if we can get a million or a couple million people, that that'll follow us. Numbers count. 00;35;14;14 - 00;35;30;29 Unknown People listen to numbers. And if you got those numbers, then you can you can enforce a lot of stuff. That's what we got to do. Whether or not you're fallen AUSA or NCUA or whatever organization want to follow, that's fine. That's great. But we have to have one spot, one sweet spot for all of us to pull together. 00;35;30;29 - 00;35;53;00 Unknown I don't think we've I don't think we've found that sweet spot. Yeah. You're right. And so you have the American Freedom Foundation. Talk about that a little bit and then see if we can't get you to that million followers. Yeah. Well we, we, we start off by doing, we start off by doing concerts with me and Ted and, you know, we did a concert for about ten years. 00;35;53;03 - 00;36;12;27 Unknown Alan Jackson trace action. James out of Martina McBride. Lee and and was able to give away about $13 million. You know what was doing that? But all the concerts and stuff like that. But, I don't know. I think there's just a lot of people that struggle, that just I, I just don't I just don't want to pull together. 00;36;12;27 - 00;36;28;20 Unknown I think they get out and they, they look at the bad stuff versus the positive things in life. You've got to look at the good stuff. Everybody's going to have a hiccup in life goes up and it comes down. Everybody's going to have problems. Everybody's going to have issues. But don't dwell on the it. Don't dwell on the bad things. 00;36;28;21 - 00;36;50;22 Unknown Well, you know, think about the positive things and keep a positive attitude. I think as long as you do that, you certainly should be okay. I hope he is okay anyway. Yeah. Hope. Hope. Give people hope. Yeah. That being said, anything to close it out. So our amazing. Well, the, I think I told you on the I have to tell you about my son Brian, I think I did. 00;36;50;22 - 00;37;11;14 Unknown I told you, should I tell you about Brian? Briefly. But, if you could. Well, I tell you, I, I talk about, well, I, I don't think there's, I don't think there's a person I know that has went to war that doesn't get closer to God. And every time somebody struggles, or something's gone wrong, they get the, you know, they say a prayer. 00;37;11;14 - 00;37;32;19 Unknown And I'm no different than anybody else, you know, probably about the most religious person in the world. But I'll tell you a story, something to happen to me. I, I had my oldest son had pneumococcus meningitis, left him, temporarily blind, temporarily deaf, 20 to 30 convulsions a day. And, and quite frankly, it's hard for me to tell a story. 00;37;32;19 - 00;37;52;15 Unknown Usually I don't cry or tear up a little bit of struggle through it, but. But I always thought you'd die. By the time he was 7 or 8 years old, and, and my, my wife talked to, she said, just keep doing your job, stay focused in life. You know, it's about, it's about God. It's about believing. 00;37;52;15 - 00;38;19;07 Unknown It's about doing what's right for, you know, your fellow man and woman. And I remember I went to Fort Lewis was like, I was at Fort Lewis, and Brian was at the Madigan Hospital there was it, was in that community anyway. And, I went to tag gunner and my wife called me, says, now this is after you had meningitis, came holidays on like 4 or 5 different kinds of medication that control seizures and is here and was coming out left. 00;38;19;08 - 00;38;38;26 Unknown And seven years is trying to grow up again. And and my wife called me says Brian sick again and said, what's wrong? See what I know? And I said, well, let me, let me ask the first sergeant. So I'd come home. And so, of course, I hustle and home. I can't remember how far Jack Ma was, which is a few hours drive away. 00;38;38;28 - 00;38;58;06 Unknown And I went home and I went right to the Madigan Hospital, and I seen the doctor and I said, hey, doc, what's going to happen? And, you know, it's not you know, it's, now those are tough. I can't we're talking about struggle and and try to get through everything you're doing and being a soldier and taking care of your family and doing all those things. 00;38;58;06 - 00;39;33;03 Unknown And so, doc, what's going to happen? And he said, I don't know. And so I did what anybody else did. I went found me a chapel, a small annex at the Madigan Hospital. And I got down on my hands and knees and I said, God, either let him live or let him die. It's not fair that, that he's going through this, that again of the time he is having these, you know, 5 to 15 seizures a day and just a little small seizures and all that, all this medication and, and, and we don't know if he's going to make it. 00;39;33;06 - 00;39;43;05 Unknown And so I said a prayer, and the next day they got another order. 00;39;43;08 - 00;40;11;09 Unknown And so, I tell people all the time that, everybody struggles. But you got to believe. I believe in life, believe in God and believe in yourself. And it'll. And you can work through it. But, you just can't just can't quit. And that's, that's the thing that I tell everybody, just don't quit. Just keep keep moving forward. 00;40;11;09 - 00;40;31;18 Unknown And and if it would have turned out bad, okay, so be it. But but it didn't. It didn't. So believing in yourself, believing a lie, believing in God, believing that you can do anything that you want to do. But the only thing it stops you is, is you. You got to believe. 00;40;31;20 - 00;40;57;11 Unknown Thank you, Sergeant Major. Thank you for the story. Well, that's that's, that's that's being real open with everybody. And and you got to open with people and tell me how you feel. So, just, again, we all struggle. Everybody struggles, but but help each other out. That's the key to success in life. And we'll leave it there. 00;40;57;13 - 00;41;05;26 Unknown So our major thank you so much. Appreciate it. God bless and have a good one.…

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Back to Life: Matthew Rice, NetSuite Enablement Lead, Air Force Veteran, and Former Military Spouse 1:14:37

8 weeks тому1:14:37

1:14:37

Get ready for an unforgettable journey as Matthew, a master storyteller, takes us through the pivotal moments in his life, revealing how his foundation shaped his choices and kept him grounded in treating others with respect. From life-changing turning points to moments that truly matter, Matthew opens up about how each experience led to incredible opportunities for growth. We dive into the life of a military family, where sacrifice goes far beyond the military. Sometimes, it’s not the first bump in the road that wakes you up! Join us as Matthew brings us on a ride full of real, relatable moments that will resonate with many while putting a smile on your face. You won’t want to miss this! And check out the links to watch Matthew in action in an Air Force Recruiting documentary. https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrricematthew/ Chapter Two: Shock and Awe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TUc9ZYWF9Y&t=2216s Chapter Three: Chow Runners Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hwUq2RTrvo Chapter Four: The Weakness of One https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DAHXn1WL5w&t=2520s…

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Know Your Worth: Dante Estwick, Software Development Manager and Navy Veteran 55:07

9 weeks тому55:07

55:07

Dante discusses how he recognized his unique ability to stand out early on and how he learned to use his skills and share those lessons to help others. With a strong sense of purpose and selflessness, Dante expresses his deep gratitude for the community who saw his potential and nurtured his talent and the mentors who guided him through his journey. We explore key topics such as mentorship, leadership, knowing your worth, and dive into the specifics of Skillbridge—a program designed to help service members transition to civilian careers. Dante shares invaluable insights on how to define your “why,” plan effectively, and execute that plan when transitioning out of the military and beyond. https://www.linkedin.com/in/danteestwick/…

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Pay it Forward: Odysseas Trikolas, NetSuite Enablement Lead and Army Veteran 56:26

10 weeks тому56:26

56:26

Odysseas dives into his personal journey coming from a strong family unit and how his values were shaped by those closest to him. We cover mentorship, planning, and discipline that helps explain how his path to joining the US Army was influenced by powerful moments of inspiration. We’ll explore how his decision to enlist transformed him, from the challenges he faced to the lessons he learned along the way….Uncovering the lasting impact of how reflective moments and an open mind will provide anyone clear direction when having a desire to set and achieve goals. It’s never easy and always earned. https://www.linkedin.com/in/odysseas-trikolas-28bb26203/…

MAVEN

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Importance of Allyship: Beth Sammons, Business Operations Chief of Staff 44:42

11 weeks тому44:42

44:42

Beth shares her journey from attending the Naval Postgraduate School to 15 years in the private sector before joining Oracle. Beth discusses how her experiences shaped her appreciation for pace and purpose, and the importance of bringing people together to stay grounded in our impact and goals. We also highlight a book that emphasizes the value of diverse skills in boosting both personal growth and the ability to contribute to the needs of others. https://www.linkedin.com/in/beth-sammons/ --------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;31;26 You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. In this episode, I'm joined by Beth Sammons, Operations chief of Staff and Maven chapter lead to discuss her journey from attending the Naval Postgraduate School to 15 years in the private sector. 00;00;32;02 - 00;00;51;13 Before joining Oracle. Beth shares how her experience has shaped her appreciation for pace and purpose, and the importance of bringing people together to stay grounded in our impact and goals. We also highlight a book that emphasizes the value of diverse skills, and boosting both personal growth and the ability to contribute to the needs of others. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. 00;00;51;13 - 00;01;09;20 Let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode, and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Best contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. 00;01;09;22 - 00;01;50;01 Good morning Beth. How are you? Good morning Chris, I am well. How are you? I'm doing all right. Thanks. Well, welcome. And we're happy to have you and have this conversation. You know, you're sitting here because of the reputation that you have seemingly built for yourself to where people have recognized the type of person you are and how you contribute in all kinds of different ways that we'll talk about, specifically within the Maven community, inside of Oracle here, you know, how you've contributed in doing things for the community, maybe in and as you talk through this, it's related to what you grew up being surrounded by or the location in which you live 00;01;50;01 - 00;02;12;03 and things like that. But, you know, I think it's a good example of the elements when you come into Oracle, when you come into this community, the military affiliated community, you know, you you never know. Obviously, who you're going to meet. But once you settle in, you start to feel like there are things that you can do and that discovery and that curiosity builds relationships. 00;02;12;03 - 00;02;30;14 And that's the essence of of how it came about. So before we get too far into these things, you want to share a little bit about those types of things where where you're from and how you navigated to get to where you are today. Well, thank you for having me, Chris. I want to just start with that, I appreciate it. 00;02;32;06 - 00;03;05;21 So my background, I was raised in Cincinnati, Ohio, and didn't have a huge military influence ahead a little bit in my family. But, I went to undergrad for business management at Purdue, and I ended up getting my MBA at naval post-grad. And I think that's a good portion of where I spent a lot of time with military and, spent two years in a different cohort and getting to do and have like a virtual MBA program, which was really neat. 00;03;05;21 - 00;03;33;07 It was a program designed for naval officers, and it was good exposure and all that. But I did that while I was in one of the federal agencies that got three letters and doesn't like to be talked about, but I spent about 15 years there. I started out in government contracting, and I was a contracting officer, and I ended up moving into I do project management. 00;03;33;07 - 00;04;06;00 We kind of built a new financial system. I helped on that project that in a way, and really liked it at the budget. And then I spent some time doing that and working in the IT division, and ended up becoming a unit chief. And because I just loved managing people and helping develop their careers. And so I managed a couple of different software development teams and shops and different, like, testing type organizations, and then a little over three years ago, I left the public sector. 00;04;06;14 - 00;04;29;23 I really thought I'd be there forever and retire there, but I ended up getting an opportunity to come here to Oracle and work in Oracle Cloud. I am a chief of staff, to our head of Sovereign Cloud. And I also, a couple of months ago, that manager bug bit me again, and I just missed managing people and helping develop others. 00;04;29;25 - 00;04;55;25 So I became a manager again. Actually, just a few months ago, literally. And so as I got that itch as well, I started mentoring. So like the last year when I was an individual contributor at Oracle, I was just missing management so much that I mentored in the Oracle Veteran Intern program, and a couple of cohorts. 00;04;55;25 - 00;05;24;00 But I also mentor and like the Oracle Global Mentoring, where you can be paired up with someone who, you know, has similar interest or is you're where you're trying to develop your career in that area. But at Oracle, I've had a lot of Oracle volunteer events and a lot of that kind of introduced me to Maven. Honestly, it was just a colleague, who sat a couple of rows down for me in the office and said, you do all of this like giving back and volunteering your time. 00;05;24;00 - 00;05;42;12 Why aren't you a part of Maven? And I said, you know, explain to me what Maven is. And then I said, well, I'm not a veteran. And, and he said that that's okay. You don't have to be a veteran. You just have to appreciate them. And I was like, well, that's very much something I'm passionate about. And so I've been a part of Maven since. 00;05;42;12 - 00;06;01;14 But I just like in the last few weeks, started helping out and that Maven, DC, Maryland, Virginia chapter. And we're going to try to have more volunteer events, more ways to connect in our area. Because there's a lot of opportunities in the DC area, to give back and to help veterans. And I want to be a part of that. 00;06;01;17 - 00;06;38;12 I'm also a mom of two young boys who keep me quite busy carting them around to activities and enjoying their energy. Yeah, you're being subtle. Yeah, yeah. Yes. I think someone asked me yesterday about work life balance and I'm like, I'm not really sure what that means anymore. Yeah. You just shifting your attention from one thing to the other at this point, a lot of it is, you know, I work, and for the most part, we're able to work hybrid and remote, and there's a lot of people interested in that, kind of flexibility. 00;06;38;14 - 00;07;02;08 But I come into the office every day simply to get out of my house to see other adults. I mean, to feel a little bit more calm coming to work is how I come down. Yeah, it makes sense. There's value in all of that. So thanks for that. Thanks for sharing that. The how did you end up going to or what made you lean towards going to the Naval Postgraduate Academy? 00;07;02;10 - 00;07;23;02 Yeah. So because I got my undergraduate degree in business, you kind of always think at some point I'll go back and get my masters in it. But when you work in the federal government, you know, a lot of those principles that you learn in undergrad about, like maximizing profits, just kind of they don't pan out and you don't use them. 00;07;24;27 - 00;07;57;28 And so as much as I wanted to get my MBA, I hadn't really thought about the best way to do it. You know, I didn't want to spend a huge amount of time going to an elite school, if I wasn't going to use it. And if I was going to stay in the government, where you're really just trying to spend all of your budget like their goal, but we had know a couple of seats in a special program, that was virtual with naval post-grad, where we all got to kind of come together and one day a week, instead of going to work, you got authorized to go to class 00;07;58;01 - 00;08;30;06 that way. Other classmates across the country. And so I got accepted into that program. It was a huge opportunity because I sat next to people who were doing similar work on kind of the DoD civilian side. They were doing finance and budget work, but also sat next to helicopter pilots. And, one of my colleagues was working on the F-35 program, which was at the time, very interesting and probably painful if you ask him. 00;08;31;12 - 00;08;55;01 But it was really good exposure. Our we had a Norfolk group as well who a lot of them worked on subs. And so it was very good exposure to understanding, what, you know, enlisted military go through, how they're, you know, most of, the classmates we had in the two year program didn't even get to stay living in the same spot. 00;08;55;18 - 00;09;27;15 The moving around part of it, is something that it's, not a lot of people, you know, in the civilian life who don't have a lot of military friends. Understand? Once you understand it, you realize, like, military families go through a lot. And part of Oracle veteran intern program and mentor to couple of military spouses and have understood, you know, some concepts about, you know, their resume may have to have them jump around every few years. 00;09;28;15 - 00;10;02;09 And it's not that they're job hopping looking for a better opportunity or something like that. As some people interviewing them, they look at it's more that, you know, you are going where the military sends you. And so I got a lot more appreciation at naval grad living, the DC area. You also just have a lot of friends and colleagues who are either in the military at the time or, veterans themselves, and you kind of understand and empathize a lot more with the struggles that they have coming back into, you know, getting out of the military. 00;10;02;09 - 00;10;34;14 And how do you transition? And it's a very different workspace. I was scared moving from public to the private sector. It's certainly different, but it's it's much more different. You know, I was never deployed or anything like that. I didn't have to go through that change. Yeah. And thank you for recognizing the challenges. You know, I'm sure we all agree that everybody experiences challenging, situations and, and relative to their environment and their, their, choices and things like that. 00;10;34;14 - 00;11;10;23 But it's, you know, it's the unique acknowledgment, the acknowledgment of the unique situations that we, we, you know, when we choose and civilians alike, when you choose to go on and take on a role that where it's the norm, where you're constantly going, where the team needs you, let's say. Yeah. And the perspective that you gain from it, I think is going to be obviously it's going to pay dividends on the work that you're doing now and who you're surrounded by, because it's easier to connect with those when you understand without even speaking, you know, just knowing that they've gone through some of these things and you can be more relatable in the context 00;11;10;23 - 00;11;31;19 of empathy and things like that. As a leader, which you've emphasized that something that you missed and you have a strong desire to do is, you know, not just mentorship, but also leading the teams as you're growing business and applying the principles of the career choice that you're in the industry. So thanks for that and a wordy summary to get us on to the to the to the next thing. 00;11;31;19 - 00;12;00;21 But it's, you know, you talked about struggle. So in your, in your transition from, the three letter agency into the civilian sector where you are now. What share some insight of what you maybe didn't anticipate or didn't expect, but you learned. Yeah, very relevant actually. It was just, talking to someone yesterday who's interested and worried about making that leap from the public sector to the private sector. 00;12;00;23 - 00;12;35;26 And I was ultimately scared as well and not sure which company, you know, I'm going to make the jump, which I'm to go to. But I think the biggest change was the pace. And I think a lot of us who have worked in government and I know military is very similar sometimes the pace is really, really fast because it's something mission critical and urgent, but a lot of the pace of change and the pace of policy that I worked in for a long time and the pace of it was unfortunately, you know, beholden to a lot of security and compliance and governance process. 00;12;35;29 - 00;12;58;13 And it seemed frustratingly slow at times. And so really, the big pitch to leave the public sector was for me, it was, do I want to sit here and wait in line for the next few years and migrate a lot of our systems to the cloud, or do we want to kind of build it? And that was exciting and an interesting challenge for me. 00;12;58;16 - 00;13;25;00 But coming over here, the big difference I think was definitely pace and it took a lot of getting used to. I came over at a time where we had a giant solicitation drop that week, and so I didn't sit around in orientation for very long. I just kind of jumped in because I had a background in contracting and I saw where I get out there, but I think the pace of it is just it's such a benefit. 00;13;25;03 - 00;13;45;15 I know a lot of people worry about like burnout and how that will affect them, but I think it's also amazing to see, you know, one of our customers in the cloud has a problem, and it's amazing to see the amount of executives and the amount of people that we can throw at that problem very quickly and solve that problem and one of the OCI values is put your customers first. 00;13;45;18 - 00;14;05;25 And that's a huge important factor to everything that we do. But it's also nice I, I stay within a group that we call ourselves Sovereign Cloud, but we really support the government and within the US and globally. And so it's nice to also be able to explain to everyone the importance of what our customers are doing. They have mission critical applications. 00;14;05;25 - 00;14;31;00 These applications are very important for many of them. We have DoD applications running. They're supporting our veterans. We're working with a group that's going to be moving all of the veterans electronic health records over to one of our cloud rooms, and it's helpful to have that perspective and understand why what our customers are doing is so important, and that we can bring the pace of change and support that they need. 00;14;31;03 - 00;15;08;01 And it's nice being on the side that gets to help with that. Yeah, I was just thinking about that, how the the correlating factors of being on one side and then going to the other side to help drive some of the issues that that you experienced. And I say issues, but some of the feelings you had on the experiences of pace, probably skills and security, I mean, processes, all of those factors weigh into things that, you know, probably drives us to look in other areas of where we can provide more value, which it sounds like you did so and so for everybody listening, OCI is Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. 00;15;08;03 - 00;15;30;05 And most, most will know that if you're paying attention to what what Oracle is and has become. But the transition in the mindset, you covered a little bit of it and you landed on it with the work that you're involved in is including the veteran community, but also the health records, I mean, the importance of it and the relevance of it. 00;15;30;05 - 00;16;02;13 You know, how is this to share your feelings about the impact that you feel you're having now with that responsibility to be a part of that effort? Yeah. So that was one of the careers I had when I left the government was, well, I still feel that same sense of mission. Because at the end of the day, you can kind of feel like, well, our job is actually just to make money, but I think we've been able to bring that sense of mission to a lot of our teams that my boss is very helpful in this, but we bring in on a monthly basis to our team. 00;16;02;13 - 00;16;31;23 We have like a spotlight speaker. And we bring in customers, we bring in potential customers, we bring in some of the Oracle Global business units who are running on our cloud and show the actual mission that, they're supporting. So, for example, we have a safety global business unit, and Oracle is running local and state law enforcement like a suite of tools, but they are running an emergency management system. 00;16;31;24 - 00;17;11;12 They're running, you know, police law enforcement videos in the cruisers, you know, pull cameras, all of it. It's all integrated into what we do. And we've been able to reinforce that with our teams and show them, you know, our teams are doing a lot of operations work, deploying changes. They may never speak to a customer. And I think it's important to put your customer in front of you on a regular basis so that you understand their mission and why what we're doing has to be done with a sense of urgency, because we have really important customers out there that if we have an outage, there is an emergency management system that's that's gone down. 00;17;11;17 - 00;17;39;04 And one of our US local organizations. So I think it helps to drive home that sense of mission and importance just by hearing from your customers. We also bring in a lot of partners. My team, tries to bring in more partners and have more collaboration engagement with, US defense and intelligence customers or partners as well. And it's good to hear from some of those partnerships, the work they're doing to support our customers. 00;17;39;04 - 00;18;00;07 And they're going to run it on Oracle Cloud. But it's nice to see what new partners like Palantir and Anduril are doing and and how they're helping serve. A lot of them are helping serve us. Department of Defense. That's amazing. I mean, that's a great that's a great concept. And we can we can look at it simply. We're human. 00;18;00;07 - 00;18;28;23 And sometimes we may lean towards forgetting our purpose, you know, because of how our lives are shaping our mindset and our attention, focusing on things, internalizing things. And so I love to hear that what you're doing is bringing people in to remind us and keep us focused, keep us aware of what we're actually affecting and impacting when we contribute the customers, the experiences, the subtleties behind that. 00;18;28;25 - 00;19;04;00 You know, I'm hopeful that everybody's understanding the importance of that. So they can always be reminded that this is why you're doing what you're doing. Yeah, no it's good. So so now so you're here and and you're doing these things and you've become more familiar with your surroundings enough. And I'm kind of floating around it. So the relationship that you've, the relationships that you've created here talk a little bit about those and, and share some of the, some of the value that comes from meeting different people in different roles and how it contributes to the things that you're doing. 00;19;04;03 - 00;19;30;28 So I and the position I have as a chief of staff, a lot of the people that I work with. So I directly support our VP. And so from day one, I have kind of always been in meetings and supporting and reporting to, a lot of executives, which was an interesting change. I think the piece of that that can be difficult is that I have to be very succinct and clear. 00;19;31;00 - 00;19;58;16 But I think a lot of what we try to do with, the volunteer events and also what we're doing with Maven is create relationships that you wouldn't normally have. And so we've got different groups. We run our classified ops teams for Oracle Cloud. But I think about a, I think we're now at like two years ago maybe before Oracle kind of encouraged people to come back into the office. 00;19;58;16 - 00;20;17;12 We were thinking of what are the ways that would drive people to come back, like they don't want to come back and sit on zoom all day. And so we started having Oracle volunteer event. And I think the best thing that we've gotten out of that and it's good to get back, but every time we host one of these, we get someone who's never been into the office and they're like, how do I get a badge? 00;20;17;12 - 00;20;37;11 How do I get in the door? But we always have people that as we're doing these volunteer events, they're talking. They work on different parts of this very, very large organization that we work for. Some of them realize they do similar work just in different divisions and lines of business, but it's been a good opportunity for people to connect where we don't normally do that. 00;20;37;11 - 00;20;58;11 I mean, I still come into the office but sit on a zoom call most of the day. And so these Oracle volunteer events are a really good way for us to give back. Our company supports it and helps us increase our social impact. But I think the relationships that we've got there, I have a really, really strong group of volunteers who come to just about any event I have. 00;20;58;14 - 00;21;18;10 We do a monthly volunteer event where we serve meals in the evenings with one of our local nonprofits, and I have a group of 4 to 5 people. I think half of them are actually Maven, but they come out every month and they're there. I had some of them in the snow the other night. They're like my ride or die group of volunteers. 00;21;18;25 - 00;21;36;06 And I have a lot of people who come to all of our in-person events in the office, and they're like, this is the only time I ever come into the office. I work from home the rest of the time. So I think we create a lot of good relationships because we're doing good things that, you know, make us feel like we're giving back as a company. 00;21;36;18 - 00;22;07;05 But it's also just creating those opportunities for people. A lot of times working from home, that was one of the scariest things that I left for government, as I had been in the office coming to a work from home or flexible remote opportunity. It sounds great, but it's also can be isolating. And so I think having these volunteer events and anything we can do with Maven to bring people out and meet in person, helps develop great relationships that we're all kind of looking to that same sense of purpose of giving back and continuing to serve. 00;22;07;08 - 00;22;29;28 I love it, and I, you know, I'm excited. I get chills in the back of my neck just imagining the feeling, right? Because it's, it's common, right? We get it. We we we have life and we do things and we're focused on business, let's say. Right, whatever your priorities are. So you can, take care of the family, take care of the house and, you know, pay bills and things like that. 00;22;29;28 - 00;22;56;21 And it's it's I wouldn't call it a distraction so much, but it is, you know, it serves as a, responsible action you can take to remind yourself of the value and humanity and, and helping others in different ways. And so this one, I believe, you know, there's a there's a bunch of different reasons and the benefits, but, you know, a couple that stand out is the fact that you're going to also provide an environment for other people to explore things that they otherwise wouldn't have. 00;22;56;21 - 00;23;23;06 You summarized it well, but it's also to get them to realize, I didn't think I'd like it. I didn't think I'd want to do this. And I think that that helps us uplift, especially in winter. You know, where it's cloudy, dreary, cold, and you're not going out a lot. You get out and you start to do things, takes your mind off of the monotony and the minutia to be able to now serve that little internal need of service, like you said, continuing the mission to serve. 00;23;23;09 - 00;23;46;06 So they say, yeah, yeah, it's great. Thanks for that and thanks for doing that. And thanks for stepping up to lead that and support that and co-lead. I imagine there's a bunch of people within your your team there that do a bunch of different things. You had somewhat of a segue because you had mentioned the book. And it's the title itself is was the grab for me. 00;23;46;06 - 00;24;06;02 It was the hook, and I was more curious about it. So immediately when you mentioned it. And we here do love to talk about books and things like that. Talk a little bit about the book that you, you mentioned. Yeah. So it was recommended. There is a great book club if anyone wants to be a part of it and or got caffeinated chapter eight. 00;24;06;03 - 00;24;44;07 There's there's a slack channel you can find it, but it's one of the books they are meeting about and reading and book club. And I like assigned reading because it gives me, you know, a motivation and a deadline to finish it. But the book is called Range Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World, and I was drawn to it because I am one of the many people that are also described in the book that feel I have kind of bopped around to different things in my career, and I think you get a little bit of imposter syndrome from some of that you feel like you were. 00;24;44;09 - 00;25;07;25 We're all kind of taught that specialization is important and it will, you know, make us successful in our careers and I definitely have, you know, I don't I've never been a software developer, but I've managed them and always a little bit of that imposter syndrome. Do I do I belong managing someone who I have no idea what they're doing and working in technology, not having a huge tech background. 00;25;07;27 - 00;25;29;14 And I always thought that way. But, you know, I started in contracting, went into it. It's like a project manager and then ended up managing these teams. But a lot of that is and then jumped over here to become a chief of staff, which I didn't have really experience in it either. And all of those kind of career pivots that I took were off at the time. 00;25;29;16 - 00;26;03;19 And I think because it is that like desire or what we are taught, is specialization and that idea of what is that like 10,000 hours of practice will make you great at something. And the book talks about that from the perspective of, yes, there are there are things that you can learn and do better that way. Chat is a really good example that they use in the amount of practice and starting early with children and getting them interested because is, you know, you can learn rules, there are strategies. 00;26;03;19 - 00;26;33;19 It is you know, all knowable. But the book talks about most of the work that we do is what it calls wicked. But, most of it, you require a lot of different skills. It's not linear and easily learner, and you need a variety of a background. And so the book actually, the author says he started writing this book and started the idea of the book because he was actually giving a speech, too, and it was the Pat Tillman Foundation. 00;26;33;19 - 00;26;54;21 So a lot of really high up military leadership, who came to him afterwards and said they felt they had been told in their careers that specialization was the way to go, and each of them had actually made a career pivot at some point and felt scared of it because they didn't feel it would be valued and that it might derail their success. 00;26;54;26 - 00;27;26;00 And the book gives a lot of great examples across music and art and business and engineering and technology, where there's great examples of people who actually have incredible success because they had a diverse background, because they didn't only know one type of engineering, because the instruments are the most fascinating one kind of think that if you want to become a great violinist, you should start at the age of three and play violin. 00;27;26;03 - 00;27;51;11 Oh, your whole career. But some of the greatest violinists actually learned, you know, 5 or 10 different instruments. And it made them better because they could understand and adapt, to different things. And that was kind of very reaffirming. I've also had many people recently. I don't know why this book just kind of when you're reading something, we've brought it up many times with people that I'm mentoring. 00;27;51;17 - 00;28;16;03 I have a lot of people reaching out from public sector right now who are interested leaving to go to the private sector, but they're very scared. They don't think they're, you know, government skills are transferable. And I felt that way at some point too. But you can't you can choose to specialize for a long time if you want, but a lot of that diverse background will actually help make you more successful, I think. 00;28;16;06 - 00;28;39;25 And it was interesting. It was a very, very good read. I recommend it, but I think it was helpful in affirming for me to know that this strange background I have, where I haven't really met anyone with something similar, but it does make me it can help make me really more successful and more understanding of different parts of this kind of business process that we're in. 00;28;39;27 - 00;29;00;29 Agree 1,000%, and I'm glad you brought it up because it is. So I mean, the story you're sharing and the way you're phrasing things is very similar to the environment to which the military affiliate community thrives in. Right? Dictates their experience. Right? And we hope everybody thrives. But it's a reality of saying, I did this, you know, didn't it becomes a dilemma that I'm going to transition. 00;29;00;29 - 00;29;17;28 I'm going to choose to do something different, do something different in a different place, whether it's doing something different or just doing it a different place, you know, apply the principle of what that means. I'm going to go do something different. We often think about the comfort and security and, you know, the safety and doing what you've done. 00;29;17;28 - 00;29;47;01 But to realize some of those in the the emotional component, and this is my opinion, right? I'm not think I'm qualified to speak too deeply on this, but in my experience, it's to say because of that, because of that belief that I have, I'm going to stick within this area because it's going to give me the thing that I'm looking for when the reality is sometimes we forget to, I don't know, maybe play with the idea of breaking it down like a project plan where you're looking at resources of self. 00;29;47;03 - 00;30;08;04 I can do these things. I do these things. I don't know how to correlate those. And you're able to isolate each one, compartmentalize it and look and say, well, I'm stronger in this area. It's a hard skill, and I'm familiar in these areas, which might be the soft skills in today's world. And I'm I swear I'm going to land somewhere in a minute because we're talking about mentoring. 00;30;08;07 - 00;30;27;28 When we look for mentors, we have a purpose. And so when we see somebody who specializes, there is a play, a place for that, for sure. But there is something uniquely different in the experience of getting to a mentor, somebody in a position of influence that you can feel, you can learn from and realize that you can ask almost any question. 00;30;27;28 - 00;30;51;02 And there's a, there's a, a certain level of familiarity in each of the spaces of what you're asking that. Yeah. And for me blows my mind like, wow, great. This is perfect because it's almost like a one stop shop that allows me to get generally familiar with these areas that I'm not comfortable with yet, and it moves me forward and just gets me, potentially. 00;30;51;02 - 00;31;11;22 It gets me through the situation where I am. So when you're talking about over at the Oracle Veteran Internship Program, where they, you know, the the interns that come in, they're in a specific situation to where that generalization that you're allowing them to hear about will help them get through the situation where they are. If they're looking for a job, looking for an experience and things like that. 00;31;11;22 - 00;31;38;02 So absolutely relevant. And skimming through the book, I probably landed in some of the spaces that you we'll talk about. But you know, the one one place inside here, if I may, when we try to briefly touched about it, touched on it before we started recording here, the desirable difficulties, you know, the obstacles that make learning more challenging, slower and more frustrating in the short term, but better in the long term. 00;31;38;04 - 00;32;02;13 What are your thoughts on that particular statement inside the space? Yeah, I think that's part of a section of the book that's talking about, you know, how we learn and you can like, apply it within. I had young children who were trying to figure out how do they best learn. And I think they have like a study where you give kids, they learn one thing, take a test, and then they move on to the next topic. 00;32;02;13 - 00;32;24;05 But kids who actually, like, dabble in all of the topics, learn it and retain it better. And I think that's helpful knowledge to know. And I think really as we grow, we need to understand how we best learn. I know I can breeze through like 30 audiobooks and not retain any of it because that's not how I learn. 00;32;25;01 - 00;32;47;29 But I think reflecting back and actually every time you go to write a resume is a good point to reflect and figure out what you learned in that role. And I, even as I've brushed up my resume in like the last year, gone back to way previous jobs and thought, how do I frame this differently? And that was one of the changes as I moved from government to private sector. 00;32;47;29 - 00;33;14;05 Like, you have to get rid of all the acronyms and things that didn't make sense to people outside of the government. But what did I learn from that? Like you want your resume to focus on results like, oh, I, you know, decrease costs by X percentage grade. That is important stuff. But what did you learn from it? And it's a question I ask and a lot of my interviews of other people, it's like, tell me about something you went outside of your comfort zone to learn and how did you do it? 00;33;14;07 - 00;33;32;21 And I think that tells you a lot about someone. And I think that's a big piece of anyone coming out of the military. You have had to learn things that didn't make any sense when you started them. Right? Like, how did you go about doing that and how would you then apply it to learning a whole new space if you came into the private sector or wherever you're headed? 00;33;32;24 - 00;34;08;09 And I think using those examples and demonstrating that pretty much everyone I know coming out of the military is really, really good at learning something new, handling stress and pressure. And that's something that we all are looking for in good candidates, someone who, you know, could reduce that learning curve and help add value quickly on my team and someone who can handle the pressure or, you know, the quick turnaround that I'm going to have, and the roles that we're in and I think a resume writing that helps you reflect on that. 00;34;08;09 - 00;34;28;28 But I think it's also something that I think we just went through kind of like a mid-year performance review is a sitting down and how did I grow? I'm one of those people that I always want to have a goal of, what am I going to learn? New what new certification am I going to get? And I think you need to sit down and reflect on like what helps me in my career, but also the same piece of what this book is talking about. 00;34;28;28 - 00;34;49;03 I don't need to sit here and specialize and an oracle cloud and only take for cloud classes what are the other things that are adjacent to what I do that would help make me better at my job? Or maybe lead me to a different career path that I have explored again. And I think I also I will always throw up, volunteering. 00;34;49;03 - 00;35;13;05 But if you're ever worried, if you can do something, there's probably a volunteer opportunity. You don't necessarily have to, learn something new by getting paid to do it. You can find an organization or a nonprofit that needs some help in an area, build some skills there by volunteering and figure out if that's something that the career path you want to go down, or somewhere where you can take those skills and apply them. 00;35;13;05 - 00;35;45;13 If you are looking to change careers, you landed on so many things. There is the connecting the dots. It's, the imposter syndrome, right? It's feeling you're out of place from a from a perspective. And, you know, the exploration of new things as you're reflecting and paying attention to the small things that you might overlook or dismiss because you in the moment don't find value in those things that you're writing down as maybe you're reviewing your resume, you know, and reconciling and tying it back to relevance. 00;35;45;15 - 00;36;10;03 You know, this happened everything. I believe, everything that we're doing is an opportunity to be able to understand how it's connecting to something else. I believe it's all interconnected. And I'm not I'm not blowing anybody's mind and saying that. I'm saying just for me, that this is why I'm saying it is because, like relationships, you don't know how important it is to treat everybody with kindness because you don't know when that may come around. 00;36;10;03 - 00;36;40;16 And that's the situation. Make it make it connect to the situations. Every situation is going to now bring a value and you don't know when or where it's going to occur. But these are the things that we're talking about. When you talking about what you've experienced and what you've learned, it's important to journal it, write it down, take inventory of it because you want to tie it back to help alleviate some doubt that you may have on where I am and why I'm here and those types of things, and especially in transition, because the common question is where will I fit in? 00;36;40;18 - 00;37;17;00 I'm looking for something specific. Sometimes that narrow focus has this overlooked the peripheral because we're so yeah, we're so we're shining the light on very specific things that we believe needs to occur. But sometimes what needs to happen is actually in your blind side. Yeah, yeah. You know, a plan is just a plan kind of thing. So when you're mentoring, tying it back to that, that's part of the occurrence is it's helping helping you, helping us as a mentor, speaking with others who are mentees, it's helping us as well because now it's helping us. 00;37;17;03 - 00;37;31;24 Am I am I who I think I am? Am I as effective as I think I am? Am I as helpful or being an asset like I think I am? And sometimes you'll learn that you I mean you'll learn the hard way. You get humbled it you maybe you're not you're not as good as you thought you were. 00;37;31;29 - 00;37;49;07 And here's why. You know, and that helps us grow even in leadership positions. And you never know when it's going to happen. Yeah, even you even you come in here in this conversation and it kind of bring it back to the book. You know, the Outsider advantage is one of the chapters, you know, and the benefits of an external perspective. 00;37;49;09 - 00;38;15;05 I think you touched on it here, but just because we're now specifically talking about it, what is the value of an outsider perspective? Yeah, the book actually talks about it from the perspective, I think, in engineering of people who have a very specialized engineering or specialized research role. And like they see things the way they see it and even gives like an example of like a specific type of cardiologist. 00;38;15;05 - 00;38;41;27 And that's, that's exactly what they see and that's how they want to act. But I think anyone coming in with different perspectives, and we all bring those but different backgrounds will help you think about a problem differently. And ultimately, like we sometimes we'll see it. We have a problem. We bring in a bunch of different people, and sometimes you get in as an engineer, like, I think too many of us being thrown against this problem. 00;38;41;29 - 00;39;13;23 Then you hear a thought or an idea and none of the rest of us have thought about it, and it's great. And those only come if you bring people in and bring in several people with different backgrounds and different perspectives and different, you know. Agendas of what they need to accomplish. And so I in my role as a chief of staff, I have to think a lot about the financial aspects of what we're doing. 00;39;13;25 - 00;39;33;02 And you can start to think about, like, bottom line of everything but a lot, bringing people in who have different ideas and motivations. And they're thinking about, how do I keep work for my employees and how do I, you know, grow them and grow their careers. And so we'll all get better ideas from that. And they have very specific examples in the book. 00;39;33;04 - 00;40;03;07 It's a great chapter about huge innovations that have come about because they brought people in who weren't specialized. And I think that's really amazing to see. Good to remember that you have value even if you don't have a very specialized background in something. And I think that's important to remember, and it will help us, you know, have better ideas to have better project outcomes and, and results, hence volunteering. 00;40;03;11 - 00;40;21;28 Right. So this this all ties back to bringing people together. And you know, you can classify it or categorize it however you want. Volunteering work, workplace in the office. You know, when you bring people together, there's a higher potential of new things occurring because of a realization. Oh, I didn't think of it like that. Or the obviously the importance of taking a break, right? 00;40;21;29 - 00;40;57;24 You know, when you're so focused on it, the theory is get up, walk away, give yourself 15 minute, take a walk, get distracted. And sometimes those epiphanies occur when you least expect it in the shower. You know, we're walking your dog. You know, some of these elements are the the essence of what we're talking about. And, and and, you know, as we kind of wind down this conversation a little bit, it's, you know, it's great to have you on be able to talk about these things because your perspective from where you started and how, you know, I'll say evolved or maybe you know, how you kind of, you know, shifted your attention through from as 00;40;57;24 - 00;41;20;14 your experiences were, you know, shaping your mindset to change life, change, maybe, you know, maybe it's a bunch of them. But all the factors that you talked about early on as to as to why you were now looking to do something different, those started from somewhere else, I'm sure. And those are a walking example of how information is important for us when we're open to see it and hear it as it's occurring. 00;41;20;17 - 00;41;42;00 Instead of being and it have jokes, being stubborn and not allowing it to kind of freely flow into into what you're doing. Volunteering is one of those elements, you know, reminding ourselves what service means and, you know, bringing customers in, bringing partners in to bring a perspective to remind us that whatever you're doing, don't forget this is why you're doing it here. 00;41;42;02 - 00;42;17;28 And that's for everything family, personal life, professional life, things like that. You know, there's a there's a ton of things that we could go through, inside this space, inside this book. I will touch on one thing, and then I'll ask you if you want to, you know, mention anything on your own specifically, but, you know, experts and and the ones that know what are some of the pitfalls based off of what we just talked about, what are some of the pitfalls of engaging with somebody that is, is, supposed to be an expert or someone who knows a lot about something? 00;42;18;00 - 00;42;48;14 Pitfalls of an expert? I think they have gotten really great by doing things. They're known set of ways, and it can really help them in certain situations, but it gives them kind of a myopic focus, and they don't always see the broader options of perspective and kind of see the force and everything. And so I think it can also help link if those experts think with an open mind and think, I would I approach this problem if I were someone else, if I didn't know everything that I know. 00;42;48;20 - 00;43;10;21 And so there are pitfalls, but there are ways to kind of try to avoid them. And there are plenty of experts that we absolutely need out there. If you have a doctor, you would like them to be an expert and have, you know, as much expertise and years of experience as possible. But I think it's it's good for those of us who are generalists and helps us know that, like, you can take a career pivot and and do something different. 00;43;10;21 - 00;43;27;22 It might be a better fit for you. I think that's good to be open to that as well. Yeah. Well thanks for that. And that's a good, good summary. So any final words or things that you'd like to share with the audience? For those of you who are or alone please I'm just going to do another pitch for volunteering. 00;43;27;22 - 00;43;44;22 You can lead an effort. You can lead a project. You can lead an event. It's not as difficult as people think. That's what a lot of people think. It'll be a ton of time. I'm happy to help you with it. There's a whole community, social impact, community leaders and awful. And you can reach out to any of them for help. 00;43;44;24 - 00;44;03;06 And that's what I'll leave us. Got it. Thank you so much. And for anybody else outside that's not an Oracle employee. Get with your community. Get with any workplace and where you are, get with your you know, even if it's your neighborhood. Think about the things that you can pull people together for and find value in that and pay it forward. 00;44;03;06 - 00;44;24;12 So Beth, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for the input. Like I said, we could have gone down a whole bunch of different paths to discuss this further, but, I think this was a good scraping the surface on what people can consider, you know, whether you're a military service member or a military spouse. The transition does sometimes play mind games on how you can focus on things. 00;44;24;12 - 00;44;41;02 But remember, use your use your network, use your support mechanisms. You know, bring people together, get a perspective and ask for help. We're all here to help and keep moving forward. Yeah. Thank you bet. Thanks, Chris.…

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Finding You: Vector Accelerator with Michael Halterman 54:22

33 weeks тому54:22

54:22

We're excited to bring back Halty for a discussion surrounding The Honor Foundation’s growth and success that includes Vector Accelerator - Accelerating the veteran journey to clarity, confidence, and conviction for life. If you’re a service member within a year from separation or a veteran from any branch of the US Military, you’ll want to hear this episode and learn why you would want to consider leveraging this program to support your transition. Do you have a family member, friend, co-worker who fits into this category? Share it and support the possibility of them finding ways to learn more about themselves in different ways they may not have realized possible. https://www.vectoraccelerator.org/ https://www.youtube.com/@VectorAccelerator https://www.linkedin.com/company/vector-accelerator/posts/?feedView=all https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelghalterman/ --------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:39:07 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the main podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this episode I'm joined by Michael Halterman, vice president of the Honor Foundation's Vector Accelerator. I'm excited to bring back Hall T for a discussion surrounding the Honor Foundation's growth and success that includes Vector Accelerator accelerating the veteran journey to clarity, confidence and conviction for life. 00:00:39:09 - 00:01:00:12 If you're a service member within a year of separation or a veteran from any branch of the US military, you want to hear this episode and learn why you would want to consider leveraging this program to support your transition. Do you have a family member, friend or coworker who fits into this category? Share it and support the possibility of them finding ways to learn more about themselves in different ways they may not have realized possible. 00:01:00:15 - 00:01:24:20 We have all we need to become the person we want to be. Let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family Hall. These contact details are in the podcast description along with the links to the source of all the information you need to know to learn more about Vector Accelerator. 00:01:24:22 - 00:01:48:21 Paul T, What's going on? It's good to see you again. Chris Great to see you. Things are well, Good. Yeah, it looks like significant change is going on around you. And you know, and I think when you and I were talking because we kept in touch, you know, sporadically, but intentionally over the last three years. Now September 2nd is when I look back and know how long has it been and it's September crazy how fast, right? 00:01:48:23 - 00:02:14:25 Yes. Yeah. And, you know, it started out getting introduced to chef Jerry Bhatia, coworker, but also friend of mine here at Oracle, who runs the Oracle Veteran Internship program. You know, he and I were talking several years ago and he's like, you need to come down to San Diego and I'm gonna introduce you to some people. So he introduced me to psych armor, the good folks over at Psych Armor, which is just close to you, and then. 00:02:14:28 - 00:02:37:14 TMF Heather Kelly now. TMF And then, then you all and yeah, as fate would have it, you know, he had a scheduling conflict, so he sent me in to talk to I think it was just Jesse at that at that moment. But she brought union and we had that conversation. And then Hillary came in and we sat down at the table and kind of just shared vision. 00:02:37:16 - 00:03:08:00 Yeah, Took off from there. Yeah. And it's crazy. You know, half was half the size in terms of what who was serving. We had five campuses back then trying to figure out how to create the now five more campuses that we have. We're our team was probably a third the size so yeah non nonstop acceleration as we've continue to grow and now we've expanded because it's always been in our heart. 00:03:08:00 - 00:03:28:29 It's really hard when you go pitch take off and they soldiers, sailors, airmen Marine from broader military comes up to you and says, hey, do you have a program for for you know, all military? And at that time we did not. But it's always been in our heart to have it because it's really hard to turn folks away. 00:03:29:02 - 00:03:50:19 And so during that time period, we have been quietly working on this project known as Vector Accelerator. And yeah, and it feels really good to every veteran that comes up to you and says, Hey, I need help in transition. Say yes, brother, sister, I've got you. Let's talk about it. Let's let's get you into the services that we provide. 00:03:50:21 - 00:04:19:03 Yeah. And I and I agree because it's, you know, so if we can go back to that in the in the conversation that we're having, you know, as much as I was, I thought I was aware of what DHS was doing. I went to the site and I saw the mission and those things. I didn't have the intricacies as far as like the details and format, the intention, who's involved and what, what you know, what type of professionals are you bringing in to help support the program in and out of? 00:04:19:06 - 00:04:56:00 If you know? And so maybe maybe it'll do us some service too. If you could just recap initially to have the format and all of those types of things and then and then it will help others see why. Because for me, you know, really quickly slide it in. There is immediately after I started to hear more about it, it's the structure of it was so similar to the logic and common sense I think was in my head of how to get somebody in to see more about what it is that's going to bring value to that individual through a process that is the structure and stability that is often needed, you know, and pull it 00:04:56:00 - 00:05:26:01 out, you know, help nudge them towards the discomfort and then get them comfortable with that next evolution of their life. Yeah, Yeah. So quickly, quick overview. You know, I was ten years old. We've been serving special operations in a very specific way, Special Operations veterans, and really were trying to get to the active duty service member somewhere between eight and 12 months before they leave active military service, because the best time to get a job is when you still have a job. 00:05:26:03 - 00:05:50:25 And working through the transition while still on active duty. Service, we find is far more efficient and what's best for the service member. You want to find yourself in crisis with no answers. You want to work through a lot of the the really the transition is a a tremendous number of individual steps. There is a lot of change management. 00:05:50:25 - 00:06:19:10 But then there's also the transition piece, which is the psychological how do I in my heart and head deal with this massive transformation that's happening in my life? And so the way we do that is, again, try and get to them early before they've left uniform and we help them with the change management stuff that is necessary, but completely insufficient for what is really going to happen in the transition. 00:06:19:10 - 00:06:36:18 And I thought that was amazing that Heather Miller brought that up in a previous podcast and that was her favorite book. I didn't know that was a book. I've got to go search that thing out now because it's it's commonly known that is, there's a lot of unnecessary things. And just because it's on the checklist doesn't mean that it is completely what you need. 00:06:36:18 - 00:07:00:18 There's more to it. And so how do we tackle that at takeoff? We have a three month phased approach. Each phase is approximately one month long. It's changed slightly since we began, but essentially so you get three phases. But we start with the one place that kind of no other foundation starts with or veterans per organization is Who are you? 00:07:00:18 - 00:07:23:15 Chris When the title and the rank goes away and no one no one cares any longer that you're a pilot, a sniper, a logistician, a, you know, fill in the blank. The thing that you did in the military that matters very much to you when no one cares about that. Who's Chris again? You need to identify who you are and what matters most. 00:07:23:17 - 00:07:46:15 What are your values? What are you not willing to give up about you and what and and how do you articulate that? When you sit down, interview and you shake hands with somebody and they say, thank you for your service and that's it, And now it's how do you interview and how do you show up to that? Ready and prepared because you know yourself. 00:07:46:17 - 00:08:16:07 Unknown And so we spent a month with those active duty service members and veterans trying to figure that out in a very structured way. Once we've done that, then we take them into phase two, and that's where we do kind of the the necessary tactical change management things of LinkedIn and resumes and how to dress and really diving into how to pitch yourself, which are 32nd pitch, which are five minute, you know, and so on and so forth. 00:08:16:15 - 00:08:48:14 And then phase three is where we put all of the information together and then give them opportunities to get engaged with other veterans who are out in the workforce, civilians who have never served, who are doing things like sales, marketing and all the other different verticals. You'll find this stereotypical business across multiple industries so that they have different touchpoints and have gotten to utilize these skills in kind of a safe space to make the, you know, to to have the UPS's. 00:08:48:14 - 00:09:07:28 And and I need to work on this pitch and I mean, I need to change my language because the language I'm using is still Army, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps and it's not civilian yet. So let me work on that before we release them into the wild and all the way through that, we don't let them do it alone. 00:09:08:01 - 00:09:39:27 That's such a key and fundamental portion of all of this. We layer in humans support at every layer we can. And so as soon as they come into the classroom, we put them in triads. So they've got swim buddies or rock buddies that they're going through the whole class with, and they do some pretty deep, intimate, rough work together to really help each other because some of these pieces and parts out, every individual gets a coach and those coaches help them with their individual needs in the transition. 00:09:39:27 - 00:10:08:14 Because even though you and I might be going through the course together, we're having wildly different transition experiences. Lots of things overlap. But like you've got kids and I do not. You live where you live and you want to move somewhere and mine's going to be different. You're looking at the tech industry and I'm looking at nonprofit, so we're all those differences we cover with giving them a professional coach and then once they get to a certain point, we drop them into the overall alumni pool, which is a it's pretty close to 3000 right now. 00:10:08:16 - 00:10:33:18 And then they can reach out to all of those alumni. We're spread throughout the United States and they can start answering and asking questions. And so support, support, support all the way through. Then obviously, our staff are very much involved at different levels and in different ways. And so, you know, the big takeaway is diving into who you are is probably one of the most important things to do. 00:10:33:20 - 00:10:55:09 And we fundamentally make sure that they're supported all the way through, that they don't ever feel alone all the way through the hiring process. And even in like the first years of employment and that's where our mission statement really comes alive. We serve others with honor for life. So the next mission is clear and continues to impact the world. 00:10:55:09 - 00:11:15:11 We will serve you for the rest of your life once you graduate with THC from any of the programs. We're always going to be here. There's always going to be levels of support available to you. We're never going to forget about you. You can always come back and take a class, talk to alumni, get answers, and yeah, that's that's the basics of what we do. 00:11:15:13 - 00:11:46:24 Yeah, that's, that's a great, great recap. I mean, the key, the key thing hearing this is the support that's in place, the human centered focus. And as you were speaking, I realize and you probably know this, but I realized, like you're kind of stripping away the things that help compartmentalize how to how to use your past and your experiences, but focus on the like you have the future, but you're also you becoming. 00:11:46:24 - 00:12:17:27 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that starts with some of the the defining moments that occur is probably the realization like I've, I found myself to be consistent. These areas I've been this is the way I've been the whole time. Yeah. Just added layers, accumulated things in such a way over my experiences, however long you were in. And now I'm leveraging that, you know, and then, you know, being able to understand when to use the tools that I've developed over the years. 00:12:17:27 - 00:12:41:12 But you know, the right tool, right, right job and then build new tools and then but the, the amazing thing is the number of people that will continue the new the new tribe as they develop and now the scenarios playing in their head of who they can look to left and right for the new the new evolution, you know, face to face you wherever you are in your life stage. 00:12:41:12 - 00:13:09:18 And that yeah, that's probably something that. Do you think it requires a lot of investment in trust what do you think the main I guess contributor to being able to establish that is it's all relationships and relationships are all trust at the end of the day. Right. The the deeper the trust, the better relationship. And that's from friends to partners to, you know, you name it, whatever, whatever title you want to put on it. 00:13:09:18 - 00:13:41:07 It all begins with can I trust you? Right? And we try and build that in at every single layer. Now, you know, back when I joined and came on staff in 2018, I had had really long conversations with individuals about why they should, why they should come through to achieve. And we've built trust over time with the community because now we're ten years old and we have thousands of individual examples and we love seeing alumni. 00:13:41:07 - 00:14:04:17 Unknown A LinkedIn posting, I got this new job, I've been promoted. I made a career switch. When most people don't make a career switch because I knew how to do it and I did not feel stuck, right, Because I had a I had a community around me of that alumni network that allowed me to go from, you know what, this this whole real estate thing is not working out. 00:14:04:19 - 00:14:24:27 And I'm not finding a passion here. And but I'm not stuck. I can get to Oracle because I know one or two folks that work there. They're also alumni and I can have a conversation with them. The trust is already built, and now I get to have a conversation with the hiring manager because of, again, trusting relationships. And we all say it's networking, right? 00:14:24:27 - 00:14:52:18 But I think the reality is it's community building. And the more communities you can build, the more you can link those disparate communities together and the more together all of us can get harder and more complex things done. Yeah, that's that's a great a great flip on on the term, right. So networking in some traditional, conventional thinking, we you know and it's from could be generational I don't know but you know we say networking most people understand that. 00:14:52:18 - 00:15:18:13 Many people understand that for for what it used to mean. But it doesn't really get to the essence of what it is. And that's what you're saying I'm hearing is the relationship and trust is the community building you're just establishing now another extension of the things that you had into the things that you want or need. And there's the incentive is personal, right? 00:15:18:13 - 00:15:38:28 Whereas networking probably doesn't describe it like that. Networking, I think, sometimes can feel transactional to a degree. Yeah, right. It can feel transactional. But the reality is all the veterans that I've had the privilege of working with, they don't want a transactional relationship. They really want to help you. And they're asking for a little bit of help also. 00:15:38:28 - 00:16:08:14 And them asking for help is really hard. Like, it's really hard because you get taught regardless of which branch you went through, be self-sufficient, figure it out, do it yourself. And so being able to have it build a community where the trust is reciprocal and knowing that if I if I extend my trust in saying that I'm vulnerable and I need your help with this, that it will be reciprocated with, you know, helping me find the answer to that thing. 00:16:08:14 - 00:16:37:09 And and certainly that veteran is going to help you And in return. Yes. Yeah, that was you articulated that better than I did. Yeah. It's it's that I've had time to think about it. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. All right. So, so then, you know, so when, when did the what sparked the idea then, to feel like now's the time to spin off into doing something that was in your hearts? 00:16:37:12 - 00:16:59:13 It has been, I would say, simmering in the background probably since the very beginning. I would give credit to all the way back to the founder because it was simmering in his head. Matt Stevens, our current CEO, has been here now for coming up on six years. He he it has always been in his mind and but it's always how right? 00:16:59:13 - 00:17:29:20 Because no matter no matter what you want to do, whether it's Oracle or real estate or finance or you're always resource constrained, always right. So we had to scale to a certain point to where we had enough resource, mostly time to be able to work on a world class curriculum that was right for a broader audience. We knew that the curriculum works because we have a we have ten years of of test case with special operators who are pretty tough customers. 00:17:29:23 - 00:17:54:23 They're going to give you harsh feedback in the moment. The critical piece. Yeah, the absolute critical piece. You know, when the time allocation, the money allocation, the most critical thing though, was the human and that was Casey Volunteer. Casey volunteer is a master builder of technology products. And this is only her second one. She's on her. She's moved on and she's on to her third one now. 00:17:54:26 - 00:18:18:01 But everything she touches, it's not gold. It turns to platinum. I mean, it just so everything that you see that's built out in there from the marketing, the language, the colors, the fonts, she just did a tremendous job. And then making it all work and work the first time from the get go. So she handed off an amazing product to me. 00:18:18:03 - 00:18:46:18 But I absolutely have to say, you know, she was the critical piece that made this happen. So having the resource of time, having a few more members on the team, some great, great, great civilians here who got passionate about it and do various parts of business, worked on it in their spare time. And then we started to collaborate, you know, then we started, you know, then you get some technology around it and you start sharing ideas in one space and it got some real momentum. 00:18:46:18 - 00:19:13:12 And then we we got some funding and then that's where that was the big change, right? So resource allocation and and the need to show up in the market, if you will, with a world class product, right. Oracle can't just launch something willy nilly. It has to be of of Oracle value before the world can see it, right. 00:19:13:12 - 00:19:34:03 Even though it might be a minimum viable product. Your minimum, I'm sure at Oracle is is much different than anyone would conceive of at this point. We feel the same way, right? It really has to be world class as a minimum viable product and we're going to make the changes as we get the customer feedback. But it's an it's got to be good from the jump. 00:19:34:03 - 00:20:06:09 So a lot of little individual things had to coalesced. And we have not officially launched yet. We're we're still quietly making it happen. And you'll see like an official launch 2025 and and a lot of co-branding from Daughter Foundation and Vector Accelerator and other great partners and I think there is there and and you're saying it without saying it is you know because the pride you're taking in the work and then the outcome, you know, you want to make sure that that trust and the brand that's been built. 00:20:06:11 - 00:20:33:22 Yeah. And then the trust that's been established isn't diluted with, you know, hasty thinking or a haphazardly effort. Right. Just to try to push something out. I mean, it's taken as long as you've said to get to that part where the risk is high because what what will happen will, you know, does it does it dilute the uniqueness of DHS program if by extending it? 00:20:33:22 - 00:20:54:13 Did that occur, that QUESTION Yeah, yeah, I know that's a valid question and that's absolutely something that the staff has struggled with to, you know, how how do you maintain high value, high touch, Right. That's one of our internal mantras, high value, high touch to every single fellow, every single alumni, every single coach, every single partnership and all the communities we build. 00:20:54:16 - 00:21:20:28 And how do you do that in a completely modality? Because we're going fully online, there's almost no human touch. So how do you do? High value, high touch when it's completely asynchronous online and, and, and there's no all these levels of support we've built in all these in-person opportunities. You can't scale that to 200,000 every single year. You have to make tradeoffs. 00:21:21:00 - 00:21:50:00 And so going into this completely different modality of completely online, we really took some painstaking look at the details and how exactly does this information in this format lands with the individual and is it actually serving them? So we had we had to answer a lot of those questions up front. And they have to believe then the risk is the risk reward factors, because now it is online. 00:21:50:03 - 00:22:28:06 Your reach has a higher potential, which is that's huge. And then by design, Right, Right. And you can tell I've gone through it and, you know, maybe talk about later my experience, whatever, maybe don't. But the idea, though, I mean, it's it's fantastic because the fact that now you can extend the reach and you're talking about, you know, if you're within a year of separation or after and maybe because of what you talked about earlier, you know, my choices were including relocating to this place where access to a physical place isn't isn't available. 00:22:28:08 - 00:22:49:21 And you're allowing people to be able to have that option. And then because the brand and the trust that's been established, you can invest, taking a chance and going through it, which I'm biased because I've gone through it. So with the extension of now having it being accessible. And when, when did you first when was it first made available? 00:22:49:25 - 00:23:16:18 How long has it been in play to where you've had the time to go through some of the pilot programs and talk a little bit about the experience? Sure. So we we did the first, we did an alpha and a beta test internal to the staff and then external to go to great partners like yourself. And, you know, veterans who have experienced the transition, know what it's like and allowed everyone to give their inputs. 00:23:16:19 - 00:23:38:09 Hey, change happened to glide change, small dog to puppy. This doesn't make sense. Like all of those little things. And then there was some very tough feedback right up front like this. This flow of these chapters does not work like you need to flip this around. And so we took that. All of the feedback from the Alpha and Bravo tasks and then we moved it into a pilot. 00:23:38:09 - 00:24:02:00 We did a pilot one and two, and then we really focused on folks that did not know each draft. This is the first time there. Or maybe they have heard of a takeoff for the brand, but they haven't. They've never touched the product. And so it went out to veterans in transition or active duty military members in transition, and veterans who have already transitioned, who have no in-person experience with have got their feedback. 00:24:02:00 - 00:24:28:15 Again, those little tweaks, some bigger tweaks even occurred. We got offered the idea that, hey, maybe you should do some video, some extra material. So we decided, okay, let's to a podcast in conjunction with and we'll do the whole first season on the chapters. So if someone has time, they want to get in depth about a chapter now, then go listen to a podcast episode that is focused on that chapter. 00:24:28:16 - 00:25:02:28 They can really dive in. And then and then after that there was a bit of a pause. Cassie decided to take a new opportunity with it. With another company. We had a shift internally who's going to take it over ultimately was decided on myself. And so for the last approximately four months, we're kind of in a we're ramping back up to really and I'm trying to drive awareness largely right now, do some recruiting, but really to give us some momentum going into 2025 and then that'll be are our kind of official launch date. 00:25:02:28 - 00:25:30:09 I think we'll we'll probably place in the history books. This is when it actually started. So a little bit of a convoluted answer, but we've been we've been working on it and it's been exposed to about just shy of 200 folks in 2024 with what we're looking to. You know, my internal metric for success is can I get a thousand graduates in 2025? 00:25:30:11 - 00:26:04:00 I think that's achievable based on throughput and and rates of completion. Yeah, I agree. And that yeah it sounds pretty typical of right people right time and you know achieving a certain threshold and then a change right and it's and it's it makes sense because it's evolving and it's scaling and then you know where that where the the experts can come in and certain phases is key. 00:26:04:00 - 00:26:22:00 And what's nice about it is the continuity. I mean, what I heard, what you were saying is there's still continuity in all of this and there's still from the focus is still trying to strive to improve the small things because there is that logical flow when you're an impressionable moment that you probably are hyper focused on those little things. 00:26:22:00 - 00:26:40:27 And those are the one those are the things that get you to have the confidence, to want to do the things. Some of the things that you talk about, you know, allow myself to be vulnerable, allow myself to ask for help, allow myself to go through a thing where I'm guided through somebody else that has to know me just enough to keep me there to learn more about me. 00:26:40:29 - 00:27:02:02 And then we can start to get into the meat of who you who you were, who you are, who you thought you were, who you think you are, that you want to be. Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. It's interesting. I heard a quote most recently that we are, and it was by a psychology a I forget the I forget who it was exactly. 00:27:02:02 - 00:27:42:20 But essentially she stated, We are nothing more than the few stories we tell ourselves, but we are also nothing less. So be careful the stories you tell yourselves. And on the surface you can kind of swipe that away and like whatever. Like you can kind of. It's not. But when you really dig into that and you really start to analyze how you talk to yourself in your own head all day, every day, and what is the consistency of the story, How you maybe don't talk to yourself so nicely or how you you think and tell yourself about your past military service, your past career, whatever your career was is. 00:27:42:22 - 00:28:06:26 It's interesting how that plays out in your day and how you show up to the next thing. And then I started to realize, like, I am just but nothing less than the stories, the collection of stories that I tell myself about myself. So be careful. Yeah, because you can convince yourself either side it's worse or it's better than the reality of it. 00:28:06:28 - 00:28:31:16 Absolutely. And it is why we work on the stories inside of Vector Accelerator that you tell yourself so that you're telling the right story. When it goes external. Yeah. And that perspective. So I'm glad we landed there because we probably skipped over the excitement of talking about the stuff that we have. But so let's, let's talk about, you know, it went from takeoff. 00:28:31:16 - 00:29:01:23 It shifted over. There was a there was context in a theoretical approach to improve and extend. But now it translated into this, you know, a vector accelerator. So the the typical rundown vector, the mission, you know, the program, the pragmatic approach, you've touched on all that stuff, but that summarize it and construct kind of give people a clear vision on what it is, what you're trying to achieve, how you're doing it specifically and the timing and and things like that. 00:29:01:25 - 00:29:22:24 So who's it for? It is for active duty service members about one year from transition. So that means if you're getting out today or you're getting out about a year from now, you're the right person and we would love to catch you earlier than later. If you're a veteran, there's 18.1 or 18.2 million living veterans, according to the most recent VA. 00:29:22:24 - 00:29:50:01 And since this study of 2023, it's for you too. There are 18.1 or 2 million open seats in available. So if you're in nine or ten and you're like, I want to take a seat from a young soldier, young airman, you're not. It's for you too. So if you fit that in those categories or in that in that category, then please join. 00:29:50:03 - 00:30:17:09 It's 100% free. It's 100% online. There are no mandatory due dates that you have to show up to. We do offer a right now it's only once a week, but we do offer a once a week check in called Azimuth Chat. So anybody who's going through the course at any point in the course can just check in and have a human interaction with other folks doing the same thing, thinking about the same things as you. 00:30:17:12 - 00:30:39:21 And then you get to start to build your community because then you can hear from other soldiers, sailors, airmen, marine guardians about what their transitions like the resources, the other resources they found, what is working for them in the curriculum, and maybe what's not working for what is sticking that just doesn't feel right in the curriculum. So what's the curriculum? 00:30:39:21 - 00:31:29:10 It is ten chapters and the idea of the ten chapters is not to again help you with LinkedIn or resum√©s or any of those things explicitly, but implicitly. What it does is help you build the idea in your own mind of who you were in your time and service and how that plays through who you are today. Understanding your value, your values, what your priorities are in terms of when I talk about priorities, you're going to have endless opportunities come at you, and the immediate pressure is going to be, I have rent, I have a mortgage, I have the obligatory bills, I've got kids, I've got to get through college. 00:31:29:10 - 00:31:52:11 If you're at that stage or or on and on, and you're going have a lot of financial obligation, more than likely, where am I living? And on the Maslow hierarchy of needs, that one's really important. It's the base, right? You've got to take care of that. But the reality is it goes through all the way through Maslow's hierarchy of needs of who do I want to become, what makes me successful? 00:31:52:16 - 00:32:40:00 When I look back at my life and I tell my story about myself, and so what we're really trying to do is not so much help you with the change management of get a LinkedIn, check that box, get a resum√©, check that box, get an interview, check that box. We're trying to help you with the transition that is going on in your head and in your heart about who you are and who you're becoming, utilizing everything that you've learned over the last four or 30 years in the military so that you can move that into the next phase of your life, not feeling lost, confused, bewildered sometimes about how did I end up with this 00:32:40:00 - 00:33:00:19 job? Or how did I end up in State X? I took this opportunity and it's the wrong opportunity. We want to help you filter through all of that and go on this journey before you have to do it. All the deadlines are right upon you because you just got your 2014 and it's crunch time and you haven't thought about any of this. 00:33:00:21 - 00:33:23:06 So that's really what we're trying to do in a nutshell. Yeah, so that's the substance behind this, the top layers of activity for prep. You know, you're talking about the tasks oriented focus of the resume and the profile and the, you know, the typical like we talked about the networking component to make yourself marketable, to show people the perception of you. 00:33:23:08 - 00:33:57:00 This this is more focused on the depths of you being comfortable and confident in knowing more about what you want to do, the way you want to do it, how you want. You're more in control of it. Whereas before it might have been at the mercy of orders, whatever they may be, location or role, you know. But but you're it sounds like you're also continuing to establish and maintain the core of the person itself that, yes, retains those things. 00:33:57:00 - 00:34:21:06 You're not using the things that you've acquired. You're just learning how to leverage those things in the new scenarios in your life stage. Absolutely. And so I can tell a personal story going into networking, going into community building, going into building my LinkedIn and all of those things on the surface. I didn't want to do any of it. 00:34:21:09 - 00:34:41:10 I just didn't. All of it was new is foreign. There was a lot of critical. It felt like very critical decisions I had to make. Where's my headshot? What is my title? How do I explain myself to the world? What happens when I make a post? What happens when I follow somebody? What happens when I put the wrong? 00:34:41:12 - 00:35:03:27 What if I put the wrong line of information on the resume? And that's the thing that gets me. You know, to miss an opportunity. You get hit with all of these seemingly critical decisions that you have to make in mass. And these are all decisions you haven't had to make before. And it wasn't until I had done a lot of other veterans for organizations, and they're phenomenal. 00:35:03:29 - 00:35:51:00 They do a great job hiring heroes, great organization, hire our heroes, great organization, and many, many others. But it wasn't until I went through the Honor Foundation and I went through phase one and really started to pull myself apart. And this is what we're doing in Vector, pulling myself apart, really understanding my own story. It wasn't until at the end of that, plus a little bit more time having comfortable conversations with fellow veterans, working on talking about myself, quite honestly, that I could go have a conversation, intelligent conversation with someone like, I don't know, someone who's been in banking as a VP of banking for 20 years at Wells Fargo, or someone who's been doing 00:35:51:00 - 00:36:15:13 real estate for 30 years. Like I had a really hard time and I see this happen with all of my brothers and sisters in the veteran space. They don't feel comfortable because they don't know who they are yet. They don't know how to talk about themselves. But as soon as they they they figure that out, the the switch flips and they're just they're able to navigate those social environments so much better. 00:36:15:16 - 00:36:40:23 And then you're building communities and it just it works. Thanks for that. And and you're right, once once you get to the part, because I'm not trying to oversimplify it, I'm trying to find the right words to explain it. But you know that the ability to do the task itself is less the issue, right? The comfortability, the unknown of now it's different. 00:36:40:23 - 00:37:09:28 I mean, if you I mean, comparatively, probably this is not doing it justice. If I'm if I'm serving and I'm in going to a new unit. Do you have a relationship with some NCO somewhere else or it doesn't matter you have a relationship with somebody else, maybe where you're going and then you reach out. And the point of that, I think, is the essence of what we're really talking about is the the understanding of the known is one thing, but the the acceptance of the unknown and the confidence to maneuver through that when it's now affecting things differently. 00:37:10:00 - 00:37:32:21 A mission is things I'm no I'm going to go execute whatever the mission is. But if it's going to affect me personally or my family, we sometimes convince ourselves that there's higher risk. I have to do it differently. And maybe you do, maybe you don't. But this is just clearing the pathway for you to see that. Now you have a common the Common Core understanding of what it is that is going to be needed. 00:37:32:21 - 00:37:55:27 And some of it is not too much different than what you already know to do. You're just now seeing better about how you can, you know, establish facts in your head to tell yourself what it is that you need to do so you don't get distracted with the abyss of the unknown because that that can be consuming as the two extremes can happen, you can feel like a total imposter. 00:37:56:03 - 00:38:16:09 Yes, and I did. I felt like a total imposter. I'm talking to a senior vice president of corporation acts or executive vice president. I don't know if I'm supposed to call her Stacy or Mrs. So-and-so or senior vice. Like, what do I call this person? Right? I got an opportunity to talk to CEO. What do I call you, Bob? 00:38:16:12 - 00:38:43:26 I don't know. And then you get the other stream. I was a pilot, right? I've made thousands of critical calls. Like anyone's going to want me at their company. Like, there's. They're like the two extremes in that you've got to figure out how to build trust with other humans and and do it in a social situation and understand their language and adapt to it. 00:38:43:28 - 00:39:08:21 And then the nuance of the language of that industry. And you can't do any of that confidently if you can't show up authentically you and open and willing to take in new information and adapt, but be able to tell your story. Yeah, settle in, settle into the second step. The first step is saying yes to an opportunity, Right? 00:39:08:21 - 00:39:29:22 And that's it. In this case, I want I want help, I want support. I want to do something, whatever it is. Second step. Now you can just settle into hey, that that felt right. More. I still have a question. So now I'm again comfortable being curious and out loud, I guess is the best way to say yes to the out loud. 00:39:29:22 - 00:39:52:08 Yeah, right. I mean you know, this this intuition, right? This intuitive approach that I know. I feel like I know what needs to be done but in that but is the thing that which I guess we can kind of just narrow it down to what we talk about that but is now your hesitation, your procrastination, your self-doubt, you know, for whatever the cause is this is the construct that helps you through that. 00:39:52:08 - 00:40:13:04 So what what are what are some of the common mistakes that still occur? We've probably touched on in here, but explicitly, what do you think the common mistakes on two ends and the individual in this situation and then the people that are making it clear after we won't talk about the ones that make no effort to help support anybody in the communities or what have you. 00:40:13:04 - 00:40:45:21 But we'll talk about the ones that are trying to what are some of the common things that we can pay attention to to help provide or shed light on? You know, we're still doing this and we need to do it differently or and then companies or organizations trying to help. We're still doing this and we can do this differently understanding that every single veteran who comes, if you're trying to recruit veterans, if you're trying to bring that goodness into your company, regardless of the size of the company, realizing that every single veteran has a heart to serve. 00:40:45:23 - 00:41:08:24 I mean, we are service members. It's in our name right? We are service members. And so the only thing that we're looking to genuinely do is find a new hard problem that is complex and we want to help you solve it because we want to provide value. We're 100% team driven, motivated individuals who really want to work well with the team. 00:41:08:24 - 00:41:41:21 And we we want all of those things because whether we did it for four or 40 years, that's what we were doing. We're solving really complex global problems with great teams and that's that's all we want to do next. So the gap, the area that could really help recruiting efforts and retention efforts and great American companies that are looking for for veteran talent is have a training pipeline and really, really think about it. 00:41:41:21 - 00:42:07:15 You know, build it the best you can. But they get a veteran on board to lead that thing for you because they're going to be able to help you navigate what it should really look like to get someone to go from years of service into what it's like being at Oracle and you have to do that because their entire life's context to that point has been in it just a different industry, right? 00:42:07:15 - 00:42:51:15 They're making an industry change, so help them understand your company, the insides, the the, the nuances, the culture, how things actually get done, if that's what culture is, how things actually get done. And if you do that, you've fully empowered them to be the most successful they can be. And look, we we know this works. How do we We can absolutely pick a date in history and say, yeah, this whole veteran thing works because the millions of veterans who came back from World War Two have put our entire country on a a bull market largely for decades. 00:42:51:15 - 00:43:30:10 And they all just came right back years of war in places all over the globe and came right back to be management. Frontline workers starting their own companies, going into academia like we know it works. An entire generation did it. And so if companies spent some time investing and training and making sure that the veteran understands how things work at your account, at your company, and how they can lay out how they can be successful, help them work on figuring themselves out a little bit and give them a little grace while they're doing that. 00:43:30:12 - 00:44:10:20 Veteran or Vector Accelerator would love to be a partner in that. Yeah, I think you'll see much higher recruiting, retention and success rates overall, do you think? Thanks for that. Do you do you think that there's a portion of folks that maybe had held formal leadership positions that, you know, as as they shift? Do you believe that maybe there's an emphasis by certain organizations in general to maybe leverage the leadership from them, expect leadership from them like they want. 00:44:10:23 - 00:44:33:20 They have this desire to be a formal leader versus now that they're coming out because of how exhausting or for whatever reason, they might have shifted their mindset. Today, I just want to be an icy, an individual contributor. I know I have the capabilities, I know have the potential and the skill sets and those things. But I want to break how do you how do you navigate that scenario when there's an expectation of certain kinds? 00:44:33:22 - 00:44:58:23 Well, I guess what I would offer the best way to do that is just have an honest conversation and build build a real relationship with that individual at the individual level, not just blanket. We're going to treat all veterans. Here's the box. We're going to put them in and we're going to once they're in that box, there's always going to like, Hey, Chris, I know you've been the Army now for 30 years and you're getting out as an six colonel. 00:44:58:25 - 00:45:24:11 You shows on your resume that you've led upwards of thousands of people for even up to a year at a time in a complex combat environment. Do you want to continue to lead at that level, or would you like some time as just an individual contributor on team? Because really what we're trying to do with our company is make sure that you're in the right spot so that you can be the most successful. 00:45:24:13 - 00:45:45:26 And if you don't want to lead right now and you want to take some time, you should feel empowered to do that. And conversely, if you're ready to just jump straight in and you want to we want to put you on a leadership track sooner. Well, let's talk about what that could look like. I mean, in my mind, that is that is how simple it could be. 00:45:45:28 - 00:46:10:24 Yeah, that's that sound. And it is simple. And I think that's and thanks for sharing that because that does share the perspective. You know, you as as in your role now taking on the leadership position which carries the influence on the style, the approach. It's good to hear your perspective on that because it does account for those those subtle differences, you know, and then sometimes you just take it for granted. 00:46:10:24 - 00:46:29:04 And now the opposite of that would also be the fear of not doing that. And that probably gets broken down in the process of your ten chapters to where you can identify maybe you don't realize that you don't want to do that, but you felt compelled. That's the only thing that you feel the need establish since then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:46:29:04 - 00:46:50:00 I one of the questions we ask is, Tell me something. You're great at that you never want to do again. And people have promoted you because of this. You've won awards potentially for this. But what do you never want to do again? And it is an opportunity for someone to take a deep breath and go, you know, I've done adult day care for a really long time. 00:46:50:03 - 00:47:06:15 I no longer desire to do adult day care. I want to be an I see I want to be an individual contributor on a tremendous team solving hard problems. But I'm just not in the phase right now where I want to make those hard decisions. Maybe I just need about a year. Maybe they won't even be able to articulate this part. 00:47:06:18 - 00:47:33:13 I need a year at Oracle before I feel comfortable in that position. I need to really understand the language and the nuance, how a vertical, how to verticals collaborate together or how potentially they don't, but how you navigate that political environment. And then after a year, I might come back with a different answer. You know, that's that's definitely something we work on. 00:47:33:16 - 00:48:00:28 Yeah. Do would do do you or has there been in your weekly calls a conversation where you either observed the need or been asked to connect dots in the scenario of, Hey, I'm in the situation, I've, I've been out, I'm in the situation at work wherever I work. And this is the scenario. This is the the organizational scenario, whether it's a company or a business or a team. 00:48:00:28 - 00:48:29:22 Here's the organizational scenario I'm in. Can you help me? Can you help me navigate that where you're you're taking a process from separation focus and then you're actually tailoring now to their individual situation? And have you ever had to deal or had to address that? I would say that's that's come up more than once. There's a gentleman who's at another tech company right now who's gone through that a little bit. 00:48:30:00 - 00:48:54:09 And he's he's been a civilian now for about four years. And, you know, he's he's still trying to figure out it's a very large tech company, much like Oracle. So trying to figure out the the culture and the totality of the how you get things done in a monolithic size company where naturally, I think veterans want to move fast. 00:48:54:09 - 00:49:15:24 They want to they want to from we call it from flash to bang. We want it to be very fast. But things move slower in corporations of larger sizes and for good reason. Right? There's share prices involved and so on, so forth. So yeah, I would say that's the stereotypical conversation, maybe a bit episodic, but it definitely happens. 00:49:15:27 - 00:49:36:00 Yeah, Yeah, I would imagine. And that's part of it. D d as we, as we kind of wind down the conversation d Where's the sweet spot for transition that in your experience, because there's no science to it and I'm going to ask you to speculate too, where it now gives somebody the impression on the timeline because it is different for everybody. 00:49:36:00 - 00:50:14:02 But where's a sweet spot that you found in your experience, individual experience, yours or self? Excuse me? And then those that your help supporting their transition. Yeah where you see it's a it's clear this shift is occurring and so there's a I'm six years into it right myself I'm six years into I'm coming up to that in January officially as a transition service member and I would say that it goes in phases and it's, it's, it's like, like a sine wave. 00:50:14:02 - 00:50:39:18 There's there's highs and lows. You have epiphanies and moments. I remember about two years into two years into my transition, I woke up one morning, literally my eyes popped open. My first thought was, I think I made it. I've been paying my mortgage now for two years. My relationship with my partner is stable. I have teammates that I love. 00:50:39:18 - 00:51:18:08 I love what we're doing together. Both of those things were extremely important to me. Love, Love what you do, love who you work with are things that a lot of veterans are looking for, but not necessarily. And it finally hit me like, I think I've made it like this. This is it. And so fast forward two more years and I found myself having interesting conversations with other veterans who are kind of at that four and six year and even ten year mark of of having a epiphanies of I've really become somebody else. 00:51:18:08 - 00:51:45:13 And now I'm wondering potentially what the next chapter is. And I feel empowered about that, at least the ones that if not through THC or the ones that have found success and know how to multiply that success. And so going back to the original question, like where's the sweet spot or where's how long does transition take? Maybe as another way of of asking that question. 00:51:45:13 - 00:52:20:03 I think it unfolds over time. I think veterans arrive at a different places and I think when you surround them with support and you give them some structure to, you know, we don't say we're a psychology or health and wellness program, but the reality is we are I mean, we just we are we're using best known practices in journaling and really deep self work to help you get to where you need to be next. 00:52:20:05 - 00:52:44:05 So when you surround people with opportunities like that, even if they're not veterans, you're going to find that they're going to progress. And the stories they tell themselves are going to be inherently more positive and they're going to find the story that says, Here's the direction I'm going and here's how I'm going to get there, which empowers them to do it solid. 00:52:44:07 - 00:53:16:07 What if it wasn't that? What's the the thing as we wrap that you want everybody to know? As I've gotten older, no longer a young man, I'm probably a middle aged man is probably the right way to put it. I've realized that there are so many things that I not only don't know, I'll never know. And then if I can concentrate on truly knowing one thing, it should be myself. 00:53:16:09 - 00:53:47:02 Because if I know myself at up, I can show up better to help others. And we find our best selves when we're helping others. Like talk about the most satisfaction we can find, the most purpose, the most meaning in our lives. It's when we really show up authentically and do something for someone else. Solving a hard, complex problem, making a big win in business, showing up for your partner, showing up for your children, whatever that is. 00:53:47:04 - 00:54:14:01 Doctor Accelerator is here to help you find the most authentic you and help you move into the next chapter of your life. Solid. And we'll leave it at that party. It's a pleasure. I always feel I'm smarter when I walk away with a conversation from you. Thanks for your time. Congratulations on coming up. Six years of transition that is never ending. 00:54:14:03 - 00:54:21:20 Thank you. All right, everyone, keep moving forward.…

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People Focused: Mike Reavy, SVP Security Engineering at Electronic Arts and US Air Force veteran 48:46

36 weeks тому48:46

48:46

Mike’s clear line of sight into the small things that gave him the tools to be successful is credited to his humility, self-awareness, and commitment to leading people. We talk mentors, change, commitment, integrity, patience, and much more! This is definitely an episode you’ll want to make time for! Mike Reavy - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mkreavey/ David Cross - https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-b-cross-b856657/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;28;25 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve what one of the main podcast, I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this episode I'm joined by our cohost David Cross, senior Vice President and SAS Chief Information Security Officer within Oracle. 00;00;28;27 - 00;00;51;11 And today we are joined by our special guest, Mike Reavy, Senior Vice President for security engineering at Electronic Arts, and also an Air Force veteran. We're really excited about this episode because of how many slivers of information we touched on. Mike's clear line of sight and the small things they give him the tools to be successful, his credit to his humility, self-awareness and commitment to leading people. 00;00;51;13 - 00;01;12;20 We talk mentors change commitment, integrity, patience, and it's packed with much more. This is definitely an episode you'll want to make time for. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity. In genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. 00;01;12;23 - 00;01;38;20 David's and Mike's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. All right. Good morning, David. Good morning, Mike. Good morning, Chris. It's great to be back. You know, I know the community is waiting for a while for this, so but we have a special edition today, don't we? We do. And there's there's I'll let I'll let our guest talk more about his intro and things. 00;01;38;20 - 00;01;58;25 But we have Mike Reaves, senior vice president, security engineering over at Electronic Arts. And what we're doing today is we're just tapping into our network. We've been talking about it for many episodes, how our networks are important, how wherever we end up, it's always important to keep in touch with others that you've grown up with or experience in different lives. 00;01;58;25 - 00;02;14;17 And as you get to where you want to be, you know, you call in those not only call them favors, but you call in that chat and say, Hey, we have a conversation that we'd love to get you involved in. Do you want to do it? So David reached out to Mike. Mike said yes, and here he is. 00;02;14;18 - 00;02;31;29 Mike, welcome. Hey, thank you. Thank you. I know. Look, I just to be clear, I view this as a as a real opportunity. I appreciate you guys give me a chance to be out here. No check called out at all if I get a chance to talk About what? We're going to talk about, I want to take up take up the time, and I will do it. 00;02;32;01 - 00;02;49;07 So, yeah, let's start out a little bit with your background, kind of just, you know, the typical stuff where you grew up, the choices you made and how you ended up where you are. And then then we'll get into the get into the weeds. Yeah, yeah. I'll try to make this quick, but like where I grew up on a dirt road in a trailer next to a creek named Poverty Creek. 00;02;49;09 - 00;03;04;05 You know, we didn't have any cable television as the joke. That's that's very real. But my dad, he was. He was. He was a retired colonel, so we were only in the trailer while we were building a house. I don't want to give this scene of, like, deep poverty, even though we did live on a creek and and poverty creek. 00;03;04;08 - 00;03;23;05 But I will say what was kind of crazy about that upbringing, it was in lower kind of lower Alabama, northern Florida. It was technically Florida. But I swear I thought our state song was Sweet Home Alabama, where I grew up. And I had a much different accent. But I did. I did. I did manage to get on the Internet back in the early nineties on that dirt road. 00;03;23;08 - 00;03;40;02 So that kind of was a good signal and sort of where my career went. So that's where I grew up. You want me to kind of go into how I got to where I am now because yeah, so where you are in where you just described and you're building a place and then all of a sudden you're old enough to make your own choices and then you do. 00;03;40;04 - 00;03;58;16 So let's go with that. Yeah. So, So, you know, my dad was a pilot. He flew A-10s in other planes. So I was going to be a fighter pilot like my dad, like all my friends, you know, that I was around growing up and but I also had this deep, deep love for computers. So long story short, like, ended up with an option to go to the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. 00;03;58;16 - 00;04;14;23 And I and I took that option to go to go fly. And my first year there, I ended up breaking my back snowboarding, which was Deckard me for any of the cool fighter jets that I wanted to do and made me think a bit about like, Hey, what I want to do in my life. And that's when I actually changed my major to computer science. 00;04;14;23 - 00;04;33;09 You know, to take up this hobby and maybe turn it into a career. Looking back, you know, as one of these great transitions that paid off really well. So I went to the Air Force getting out of the academy. I actually was a communications officer, worked there. Basically, if you guys know Scott Air Force Base, Illinois, there's a lot of commands there, trans comms there. 00;04;33;11 - 00;04;55;05 AMC's command was there. So it was a big installation and I was part of the COM squadron supporting the networks in the late nineties. So as a young lieutenant, I was technically in charge of 10,000 workstations across multiple commands. You know, as you probably know, there is the senior enlisted personnel that knew what was really going on from my first few years there. 00;04;55;05 - 00;05;16;11 And but I really got a deep a deep crash course and had a support network. And that was the time when there were things like the Melissa virus and stuff going on in security. And so I was in charge of messaging, which was basically exchange back then. And the help desk, which got flooded when, you know, the generals in there just couldn't get their emails. 00;05;16;11 - 00;05;46;20 So that was my introduction to computers in the real world. And then actually my, my, I spent all five active duty years at Scott Air Force Base. My last two years I went to a group called Scope, and they basically did. We flew to every Air Force base as a small team and did a kind of a two week optimization and securing of their network, because back then Air Force networks were basically built kind of out of closets, you know, like maybe some tech sergeant knew what to do and built out a domain on windows into it. 00;05;46;20 - 00;06;04;07 So this was part of the Air Force trying to professionalize their networks worldwide. So as a young lieutenant, young captain, junior captain, I was able to fly two weeks on, two weeks off and lead small teams. I mean, just you don't get an experience like that anywhere else. You know, like they they threw a bunch of training at me, but I was hands on. 00;06;04;07 - 00;06;29;02 I had to, like, go convince people that really, you know, sort of bled over creating these networks, that this young lieutenant, young officers and contractors were going to help their networks and then leave. That's a dicey conversation, right? That's how I got started. And then I had a job lined up with a government contractor. It was kind of the dream job as close to a fighter pilot as you could get, but sit at a computer. 00;06;29;05 - 00;06;45;18 It was computer network attack before we really talked about it dream gig. But then I had an option through some friends to interview at a place called Microsoft, and so who says no to that? So I interviewed at Microsoft and ended up, you know, taking that option instead of the Dream gig. Just because I thought there'd be more opportunities, I'd learn a lot more. 00;06;45;18 - 00;07;04;00 And that's exactly how it turned out. I met a lot of great people. Microsoft, one of them is on this call, on this podcast today, and I spent a decade and a half there now media liability for seven years securing the video game company, probably one of the craziest forms of entertainment that exist in the world is video games. 00;07;04;00 - 00;07;21;03 It's massive. Anywhere you have huge value, you had a lot of attackers trying to get at that value. So we definitely have a very important mission as far as it goes. And we take the ability of getting people a chance to play very serious, like life is serious, you got to have outlets. So we take our job very, very seriously. 00;07;21;06 - 00;07;40;21 So so, you know, Microsoft, we got the truth out now, like Microsoft was not a dream gig, Right. You know, so the truth is finally came out and really the dream gig is that you can play, you know, games all day on your Xbox. That's that's what you're saying for everybody. Yeah. You know, the the young 20 year old Mike Reed, he had real mature plans. 00;07;40;24 - 00;07;59;14 Luckily, the world took care and gave me better plans, took care of me, gave me a better plan. So now there's there's little brief vision of like, hey, you know what? Who says no to Microsoft? And getting that chance was pretty eye opening. I just never saw it coming. Yeah, I imagine it's just one of those things David's talked about in the past of some. 00;07;59;14 - 00;08;19;17 Sometimes, you know, your plan, your focus, your intentions not derailed, but you know, you get distracted or something else draws your attention to it and then you make a choice. So when when you were offered that choice, how excited were you and what were you thinking about? Now that wasn't necessarily in your primary plan, but now, now you have a chance. 00;08;19;18 - 00;08;35;26 Now you have an opportunity. Absolutely torn. I was really torn. Like I said, the gig that I had lined up at this government contractor, small firm, if I said the name, it wouldn't mean anything. But I'm sure I'm supposed to say it because they got acquired. But I had friends that had that I had followed through my Air Force career that had joined that group. 00;08;35;26 - 00;09;02;21 And it was all gravy, like everything was set up great and I had signed. And so there was a relationship there and I had committed. And there's a bit about this integrity and like, I just wasn't sure what to do. And then I get this thing from Microsoft that I remember I went to my parents, right, Because this is I'm still pretty young and I just take a week to think and I really kind of laid it out and I said, Well, what I think this company is going to be okay if I say no, and I will just talk to them honestly about what happens to you if I say no. 00;09;02;21 - 00;09;21;00 Because if I hurt you, I don't want to hurt you because it was a small contractor and then too, I looked at it and I said, There's kind of two principles that have guided my career. And one was, Where do I think what choice is going to give me the most options in life? Because the one thing I knew about, like myself in the world was change is constant. 00;09;21;02 - 00;09;41;18 So the more options I have, the more opportunities I'm leaving open, the better I will probably be. And number two is where do I think I'm going to be the most helpful? And the story I had gotten from Microsoft and what they needed, they really needed help. Like this was the crisis in the early 2000 where Microsoft Security was, you know, kind of under the gun and this government contract like they had tons of great people. 00;09;41;18 - 00;09;58;29 Like I was probably one of the least skilled, you know, honestly going there. I was basically getting offered the job because they really liked me. It was relationship. So where was I going to be the most helpful? What was going to give me the most options and opportunities alive? And that guided my decision. Well, I think that comes into the topic always. 00;09;58;29 - 00;10;16;01 We talk about it many times on the podcast is about, you know, the networks and connections, Right? You know, is that the most important thing for, you know, veterans that are working to make a transition or to kind of make a move, you know, in their career? You know, has that changed in the past 20 years since you and I joined now? 00;10;16;03 - 00;10;39;09 I think I think the network, you know, the connections are really important. And I've always viewed myself as really poor at networking. But then if I look back at my career, networking has done everything for me. Like even the job at Microsoft that they got sat in front of me was because I had gone to Blackhat Def Con Solo in the Air Force because we weren't sending people there yet in the early 2000s. 00;10;39;12 - 00;10;57;02 And I stood out to a guy and when we started talking, he realized I was prior. I was active Air Force and his dad was prior Navy and he got to the Naval Academy. So that was the bond. That guy ended up getting me the interview a microsoft. He wasn't working at Microsoft, but he knew the people and he ended up speaking at a conference in Seattle. 00;10;57;02 - 00;11;11;09 I joined him as Black Hat Seattle back when they had it. I had no money, right like as a and some usually used leave. I think, or stuff like that. But I end up like doing the videotaping for Black Hat. That's how I got a free ticket. I slept on the floor of his hotel room because he was speaking at it. 00;11;11;09 - 00;11;28;00 And that's when a microsoft recruiter overheard me talking when we were getting bagels about me getting out of the Air Force. And I had a job lined up at DC. And she said, Well, we're hiring. Why don't you give me your resume and just that thing over bagels. And I went right upstairs and sent my resume to her. 00;11;28;02 - 00;11;46;09 And I remember she told me later, like she was really impressed with how quick I responded, but that's how it happened. So it was networking on both sides, right? So I think that's always been important. And I actually think the best networking I've done is kind of genuine, like people that I like, that I enjoy talking to it ends up flowing, but I have to I have to be conscious about it. 00;11;46;15 - 00;12;01;27 Otherwise, you know, I'm very comfortable, right? I could sit on my couch all day, look at my shoes, have a shoe collection. I could just look at my shoes. Right. And I'm not going to really meet people. So I think it's important to keep those networks alive if you. So he weaved it in there. So I'm going to capitalize on this that you can't see it. 00;12;01;27 - 00;12;27;28 But behind him, I don't know who four, six, eight 2020 pairs about behind him on display colors the whole nine. It's really beautiful actually if you're loving it. So so thanks for that. So the question might then you know because it is tough choice and your two priorities that you're looking at is, you know, the options you know, the most options for you and then where are you going to be the most helpful and how you assessed it. 00;12;27;28 - 00;12;47;08 I mean, that that's not very typical today where it sounds like the depth that what you were looking at is how many people were in the contracting organization. And then did that. Was that the significant influence of saying, well, that lessens the the kind of the decision making process for me to know that they're going to be taken care of. 00;12;47;13 - 00;13;02;14 I'm going to go over here and and create a new path going my perception that was that I mean, I knew they would be I'd actually had a very open conversation with the person who was in charge of the company, the person that recruited me. And, you know, they were they were okay. And that was a big part. 00;13;02;16 - 00;13;17;04 Like if they had said, hey, this is tough, we were really betting on you. We have, you know, you know, because you know how government contracts were like, sometimes they actually booked work based off of the credentials of the people on the bench. And they had said that I think I would have changed my mind, but they were just like that were good. 00;13;17;06 - 00;13;34;29 And then I'll tell you what, like that relationship stayed alive and they ended up working together on some stuff that was not being very helpful for everybody. So I just say like it was done in a way, in such a way that like I was still and still to this day friendly and friends with some of the folks that were part of that group. 00;13;34;29 - 00;13;50;13 And that group is kind of moved on. So yeah, like I think that's a great point is element is like there's an element, as we all know, don't burn bridges of the past and things like that. But also I think is that sometimes maintaining those connections and you know, helping out of you never know that hey, you could help them. 00;13;50;13 - 00;14;04;04 You may have met the right person or you need make a change, but you can you can repay or, you know, kind of reciprocate back to them. And I think that's maintaining those network is a very, very important because you never know you could be one year from now, maybe not for ourselves, but one year is now a five year turn out. 00;14;04;04 - 00;14;23;00 You come across a man, wow. Because of what you paid there, they're there to help you when you need it. That is exactly how it played out. As they needed something down the road. You never would've seen it coming. But it was all done with integrity. It was all done with mutual respect and just open transparency. And as a result, like when it up doing a lot of things together over the years. 00;14;23;03 - 00;14;51;10 Yeah, that's the sorry David said. And I just want to touch on it because when we're talking about the topics that were seemingly just kind of naturally going into is like transition. It's a decision making level, the loyalty of what I had, how do I maintain that? And now when I'm struggling with feeling like I'm not being loyal to this and then I'm trying to go out and do something different, that feeling, that angst, that that uncertainty as to what's going to be the impact it sounds like it turned out. 00;14;51;10 - 00;15;10;01 And that's what I think, you know, for me, I just want to make sure anybody listening is clear on is you can still have that integrity and the loyalty and how you do those things to preserve that. If you just imagine down the line, it's a small world. And I know David's talked about this before, not only veteran community, but also the security communities. 00;15;10;01 - 00;15;29;20 Very small in a sense. Right. So the relationship component, I think was key. And you kind of just played that card well, Yeah, I think I think it played out the you know, looking back as best I could have ever hoped for, you know, Mike eventually, like, you know, you know, and Chris, just talk about loyalty like Air Force, right? 00;15;29;21 - 00;15;49;11 You know, your family's Air Force. And you mentioned Navy. You would actually Air Force people. You would actually work for another service. What where did I hear that before it? Yeah, it is. You know, I've met a few Navy people that I can actually really respect and get along with. Now, tell us about them someday, but we'll go on to that. 00;15;49;13 - 00;16;08;25 But there's been there's an element of, you know, the service is that, you know, it's not just we're all veterans, right? We're all together. Right. And I think that's a connection I think many people don't make sometimes. Is that is that even though we know the Marines are very Marines, but like, hey, we're all together, all you have a common mission. 00;16;08;25 - 00;16;25;23 We think of things like the Gulf War or major conflicts like we're all in together. It doesn't matter what service we are. And I think it's you know, from a network perspective, I think people keep their eyes open and much broader. Yeah, I think it's kind of like sibling rivalry, right? Like, you know, sibling siblings pick on each other because they're bonded because they care about each other. 00;16;25;23 - 00;16;44;02 They can do it. And people see it from the outside to like, what the heck's going on? Like, you guys hate each other, like, now, like we're here in it together, you know? And that's that's why we can do that. Yep. Yes. So, so now you've made the choice and you're obviously looking back now. It was it was a good choice. 00;16;44;03 - 00;17;11;13 It turned out that, you know, there was some connections later down the line. What's happened since then that you felt probably were aren't the things were unexpected or, you know, where you were introduced to things to where there were some contributing factors of how you made your decision, like the awareness or just kind of the knowing yourself? Well, just to explain a little bit on how things progressed since making that choice. 00;17;11;17 - 00;17;25;12 Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you, when I when I made the choice to join up with Microsoft, part of what I had been doing in the military and, you know, you get a you get a lot of this as a young officer, you get a lot of this at the at the Air Force, any service academy. Like I love it. 00;17;25;19 - 00;17;43;17 So when I say something negative, please understand this is totally, totally backed by so much positive. But when you join the Air Force Academy or any military academy, I think they tell you like you're the best of the best, you're the cream of the crop. You're going to be the future leaders of the world, the like. You really get a lot of a lot of talk that you're awesome, right? 00;17;43;19 - 00;18;00;25 And I think part of me started to realize there wasn't much separating me from all the people that I knew that did not go to the service academy. And that started becoming immediately apparent when I got on active duty and I started seeing like the noncommissioned officers that were just amazing and I was like, why do they, you know, teach us that? 00;18;00;25 - 00;18;17;24 They did teach us a lot more, but I just remember that. So I do remember like when I had when I had finally decided to leave the military, which was a tough choice. But what I finally decided to leave the military. I wanted to take a position where I wasn't going to be a leader. I wanted to be an individual contributor. 00;18;17;26 - 00;18;37;20 I just wanted to work like I think I had just been. I was tired of I had been taught leadership principles since I was 17, you know, And I and I my first year at Microsoft, I was working in this group where we dealt with all the vulnerabilities coming in to Microsoft for all of Microsoft's products and the way the team was set up. 00;18;37;20 - 00;19;10;16 You had program managers who helped manage the relationship with all the hackers that were finding the vulnerabilities with all the product teams at Microsoft that maybe had like Internet Explorer Windows, they needed to fix the vulnerabilities and then we had this team that was the the deep technical team that understood the vulnerabilities. And to make a very long story short, after about six months at Microsoft, I realized I was never going to be as good as these tech guys, these deep, deep tech guys that like folks like there's a gentleman named David Ross who passed recently, like just so smart, the best in the world at what they were doing. 00;19;10;16 - 00;19;26;25 I'm like, I'm never going to be that good. Like, I could try. I might get 90% of the way there, but it took me ten times the effort than it would be for me to actually be a people leader and manage people and motivate people like that I could do would be a lot more helpful to the organization and what I wanted to do. 00;19;26;25 - 00;19;40;21 So I think that was one of the first points where I was like, What I want and what I can do to be helpful maybe aren't the same thing at that level of maturity. That kind of hit me. I think it was just it was the caliber of the people that let me realize that. And I think that was one of these other kind of forks in the road. 00;19;40;21 - 00;20;01;23 For me, it's like really what I want and what I what I am best at or what I can be the most helpful doing may not be the same thing. Yeah. And so I was thinking that now when you said that the people that you're surrounded by, so I'm guessing then it naturally puts you in positions in the environment where most of the people are, because I don't know. 00;20;01;23 - 00;20;17;10 And you can tell us most of the people around you were very supportive in allowing you to kind of find your way. Is that right? And I just I think I think where that comes in to like being veterans and stuff is like, yeah, people were supportive and helped me find my way. But the other thing is they started recognizing the stuff that I was taught and how it was helpful to the organization. 00;20;17;13 - 00;20;37;07 And so like, I don't know, you know, if this is going to be universally true, but I'd say it's probably true for the majority of us in the military. We learn a lot. We learn a lot about working as a team, accomplishing a mission, staying motivated, staying focused, working through distractions and keeping on on target. Like we learn a lot. 00;20;37;07 - 00;21;01;06 Like you don't get that everywhere. So this gentleman that I mentioned who was like the best in the world at this technical capability, like he learned a lot, right? But what we learn and it's not something everybody gets like this person didn't learn all that. We get that in the military and that can if you can align that to the organizational needs, that can really accelerate not just your career, but it can it can accelerate what the organization is trying to do. 00;21;01;06 - 00;21;18;25 So I think that's one part of what it was for me. It was like, you know, I had like eight years of leadership training and here I was trying to do, I don't know, like five years of assembly, reverse engineering, you know, in my spare time. So I could do this. One thing I wanted to do as a non leader like that doesn't make any sense. 00;21;18;25 - 00;21;35;27 Like we were I was given this. I was given this experience and this training. I should use it for the best effect. So I think, Michael, you raise a great point of, you know, leadership and things and many companies, right. You know, that of hey, they may have some gaps, they may have some needs and often, often sometimes they may make change. 00;21;35;27 - 00;21;51;19 And I think this is where military veterans are often and can be the best change agents because A, they like you can say, here's the mission, here's the challenges, Right. You know, here's what we need you to do. Right. And, you know, the veterans really know how to operate that say, and they may need to learn something as part of it and say operate, make it happen. 00;21;51;19 - 00;22;11;24 Right. And be that voice. Be that that catalyst and things like that. And often when change is needed, veterans can be some of the best choices in bringing into your leadership team. Absolutely. I mean, just take it to the core. What the military is compared to what you do in the private sector at like just one of the fundamental truth about being active duty in the military, you're probably going to move every 2 to 3 years. 00;22;11;27 - 00;22;34;18 You're probably going to change some sort of career, something every 2 to 3 years. Like you don't have that kind of change baked into private sector tech roles. And we deal with that just on the norm. Well, die bomber in new team, new mission, go figure it out. Get it done like we just that's part of our bread and butter And so like you think about what you want to do to take an organizational change at a private company like a veteran's going to understand how to work through change. 00;22;34;18 - 00;22;52;03 They've been doing it their whole career every few years. Now. Building on that, though, I would say the other point let's sort of take the converse of things is what is the biggest challenge you think veterans is like, Hey, they could be leaders, they can adapt to change, but what's the biggest element you've seen in your experience when hiring or bringing your sons in? 00;22;52;03 - 00;23;13;02 They've transitioning. That is the largest gap or change that they need to make to adapt to the civilian world. Yeah, I mean, this is such this is such a good question. This is such a good question. And I think it kind of varies between where folks are coming in from, like somebody that's coming in with five years versus somebody is coming in with 25 years. 00;23;13;05 - 00;23;35;11 Right. It's different. You know, one thing that's the same is you need to learn the culture of the organization right away. Does it matter if five years, 25 years, you need to understand the culture, You need to find mentors that can help you understand the culture. You probably need to find more than one mentor so you can bounce, cross cross views and triangulate to build your own truth around the culture of an organization. 00;23;35;11 - 00;24;09;02 How the wheel really moves In an organization like 525 years. You got to learn that because it's not going to be the same one that you came from. I don't care what company you're joining unless it's you're going right back into the military. It's going to be different. So he got to learn that. But I'd say, like the folks joining with 20 years, you know, long, historic like great career, like coming in as a leader, one of the things I've seen that has been disappointing and just like I wish you could go different is folks come in with this background in leadership and they think their leadership is going to just naturally push them forward, 00;24;09;05 - 00;24;24;22 that it's going to be recognized and immediately appreciated because of what they did in service to the country. And unfortunately, that's not true. These most companies, they're just meritocracy. So it's going to be. What did you do for me lately? What have you gotten done? What impact have you had? And your credentials aren't going to get you anywhere. 00;24;24;25 - 00;24;42;26 Where your credentials are going to come into play is how you're able to leverage those for impact in the organization or the timeframe that you're there. And I think that's just hard because you come in with a service, this historic career and it's just it bring it built helps you build a network immediately and make connections immediately. But it's not going to get the job done. 00;24;42;26 - 00;25;00;14 You're not going to get a great end of year review because of what you did for 20 years in the military. So, Mike, you're saying that just because you're wearing the academy ring, I don't have to bow down and kiss it? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. I thought for sure that was going to happen. I, I end up not wearing the rate because nobody seemed to care. 00;25;00;17 - 00;25;20;07 I was lied to all those years. So there's one. I'm going back to the dad jokes because you said, you know, multiple mentors to get cross views. David We're not talking about David Cross views just so we're clear. But I'm from who? I'm here all week. All right. So the meritocracy, right? So and I think you just landed on something, you know what? 00;25;20;07 - 00;25;44;12 What I feel is expected. What I feel is earned, how I feel about how I'm supposed to be treated. You know, we use the ring as a symbol, you know, an academy grad. But it's basically any any any role to wear even during the academy said, you know, basically you're awesome coming from a workplace situation if you've never even served where you've been told, you're awesome. 00;25;44;12 - 00;26;11;02 You know, we're talking about competency driven evaluations, performance reviews and things like that. To wear hard conversations to help guide people correctly where you're giving them information that is contradictory to how they feel. And David's been a big proponent of this. You know, feedback has the sting and the good ones actually know how to deliver it. Tell us about one experience that burst your bubble, if you will. 00;26;11;06 - 00;26;28;01 my God. Yeah. I mean, an experience. It wasn't it wasn't me per say. I mean, I can give you an experience about me, but that was, you know, I was coming in with five years, but some of that came up with like 20 something years. There was this six and I helped recruit and vote organization. I just thought they walked on water like I didn't work with them when I was active duty, but I saw how they showed up. 00;26;28;01 - 00;26;45;20 I knew a bit about their career or they ended up being the commander of a group that I was attached to as a reservist because I did the reserves for a couple of years, active after active duty. So they were also I mean, I knew what impact they had. The military, they joined, they failed horribly. And I had my fingerprints like I recruited them. 00;26;45;20 - 00;27;09;02 I sold I sold him to people like he joined into this in this role. And, you know, he just never really adapted to the culture. And, you know, I could tell that after a tenured career that got him to Oecs, he thought like rank had its privileges. And what he said would go like really getting people on board when there was no formal authority per se. 00;27;09;02 - 00;27;28;20 I was not especially cross organizationally was not a skill set they had developed and not a skill set that it looked like they really wanted to develop. And so that really burst my bubble. That's when I that's when when you said when you when you ask the question and I kind of just like you can't say it on the podcast, but like, I'm just grabbing my forehead is because that was the one that really hurt. 00;27;28;22 - 00;27;54;28 Yeah, because it hit me that like what got them there did not help them here at the time. And they really and I felt like if this ever happens to me again, you never, ever know anybody coming in from the military after a long career into a very senior role into a private organization like a tech company. I want to grab them and just be like, okay, here's the crash course and what you got to let go of what you're getting yourself into, you know, before they join. 00;27;55;00 - 00;28;10;17 Well, I think that always comes in. I think maybe the biggest mistake for some is that with putting aside all that things of the elite ism and all that, that's like you got to have a great mentor and peer mentor that's really going to give you the here's the hard to heart is like, this is not a mission that you've ever expected before. 00;28;10;19 - 00;28;31;26 And if you're not ready to take this on in understanding this, you're going to fail. You know, the mission is going to fail. Yeah. And like Chris said, I love what you say, David. You know, feedback, good feedback, important, critical feedback has to sting. You have to deliver words really hard. And I think a mentor like that in the context of a manager, an employee, of course that matters. 00;28;31;26 - 00;28;46;26 But as a mentor it really matters too, because you need a mentor that can really bust through that so you can feel it. I remember, you know, going into Service Academy, they had me meet up with this guy before I decided to join is like, I think he was like an insurance salesman who had graduated at some point in his life. 00;28;46;26 - 00;29;10;22 And he told me about how miserable life was at the academy, just how bad it was, how horrible, how he woke up with a in a hole in his gut every day. And I needed that because I still said yes, like I knew what I was getting into. Right. And I think being able to deliver that kind of message is something that you do in the military because you because you got to weed people out earlier, they're going to hurt the people around them, you know? 00;29;10;24 - 00;29;31;14 So I think it's important to be able to communicate that. Yeah. No. And you landed on something that's that's common today, no matter where the candidate comes from, is commitment, understanding, commitment and what that means. And I think what I heard and what you just said is you got something from somebody that potentially could potentially be perceived as negative. 00;29;31;14 - 00;29;55;13 It's you're giving me a negative experience, but that's X, Y, and whatever. But you looked at is like, well, it's real and I'm going to use it. And that just reinforced your commitment to make the decision. Talk about commitment. You know what what are some of the key factors that contribute to us getting past some of those things that we create on our own that prevents us from making the right decision? 00;29;55;16 - 00;30;14;26 Yeah, I mean, I think I think one is we're kind of grown with that. No, we're not. We're not going to let the mission fail attitude and a lot of ways. So whether that's a personal mission or an organizational mission, I think that's part of what we get as a indoctrination through our time in a in a in a military career as veterans. 00;30;14;28 - 00;30;34;17 And so like whether that is we're not going let the mission fail at this. You know, we're kind of in the to use another services term because we don't have this term in the Air Force that you're kind of in the sack. You just kind of grunt through it. Like I remember first a few years of my time in Microsoft, like I was basically my career was doing well because I was the last man standing. 00;30;34;20 - 00;31;01;13 It was just too hard for a lot of people. And I just had the resilience and the commitment and maybe I was too dumb to quit, right? But I just kept pushing through it. That's part of commitment. The other part of commitment is being willing as as David said, to embrace a change and to make a change when when it's early enough, where the change will save the mission and not so late that everybody sees the need, because when it's so late that everybody sees the need, it's usually too late. 00;31;01;13 - 00;31;26;24 But it's easier as a leader to get people on board. But when you see the change before the pain is really there, you have to communicate that change. And people may not believe in the Y yet you have to like bring them along and that's hard and that there's commitment involved in doing that. So that I love this part because it wraps a lot of what you've already talked about, our experience conditioned mindset. 00;31;27;00 - 00;31;54;12 We're instructed, trained and brought to believe on how we can influence outcomes, whether it's change, whether it's I recognize situational awareness, I'm observant, I'm connected to something where I can see it. So let's talk about that piece real quick. When you have somebody coming in, no matter where they come from and you can talk about the veterans, they see things faster, like we see the organizational structure, we see the culture, and we kind of just say, I've seen this movie before. 00;31;54;14 - 00;32;15;05 I already have the answer in my head. Talk about what you just said as far as like leading change and how sometimes people aren't ready to hear it until sometimes it's too late and then then it's easy. But when you're that person that sees it early, what are some of the behavioral components that are gotchas on how we now deliver what we see? 00;32;15;08 - 00;32;32;18 That's really good. That's a really good question. You know, there's a there's this dance. Remember the Nokia burning platform memo that went out and Nokia, the telephone company, the the right. David, do you remember this? Yes. have. And it was becoming pretty clear that Nokia was losing market share, even though they had been the dominant phone maker. 00;32;32;18 - 00;32;50;21 I mean, who who you know, if you're around our age, like you had the phone, you played snake, everybody did. Right. The candy bar, Nokia phone. And after the iPhone, you know, an Android, it became pretty clear Nokia wasn't going to make it. And and they did a burning platform memo. It's public it's kind of famous and like basically saying, hey, we've got we're on a burning platform. 00;32;50;21 - 00;33;06;24 We have to make massive change. I use that as an example of courageous communication, but also probably a little too late. Right. And so like at that point, it was pretty easy to communicate the difference. I'm sure there was a percentage of the population that Nokia felt like everything was going to be okay. Still, at that point in time. 00;33;06;26 - 00;33;20;00 So there are some people that needed the memo, but there was a lot of people and a lot of folks in the market like, hey, they got to make a change. They're not going to make it. So that's kind of a too late thing when you see a change before that, before that, before that pain and you need to communicate it. 00;33;20;02 - 00;33;46;01 One of the big trappings is that people get it. It's the hubris, right? It's just like everybody sees it, everybody knows it. And so when I communicate, it's going to be no big deal. That's a trapping, because what you're going to have is either going to have to use because I said so type language when people push back or you're going to end up having to fight against other parts of the organization, whether inside or outside, that to get them to embrace the change. 00;33;46;04 - 00;34;06;00 And you may never make it finished, you may never finish the change, you may never make it complete fully. It may be so long that you shouldn't have done it in the first place. Could be the worst of all situations. So what it really requires is the ability to bring people on board and communicate a vision and a need and kind of make them feel it as their own. 00;34;06;02 - 00;34;25;27 What was the is it was it a patent quote, general patent quote that said, you know, never roughly like never tell people what to do. Just tell them what's needed. Let them surprise you with the ingenuity. Like you have to give an up autonomy to the people underneath you. We're like, we have this need for change. And maybe they actually know the steps you want to follow in sequence to make that change happen. 00;34;25;29 - 00;34;40;05 But the way that you can actually get that change to land is people make it their own and just sort of point and you can watch and you can guide, especially if you know where it needs to go and. That and that I think is a real skill and you have to have that. I mean, the quote I just gave is from a general in the military. 00;34;40;05 - 00;34;53;23 It's something we learn in the military is how to get people on board with the mission and make them feel embrace it as their own. Yeah, I think that's a great story and things like that. And I think back to my time. It's about resilience, it's about focus. It's also being patient as well and not giving up as well. 00;34;54;00 - 00;35;10;22 You know, I can go back a long time ago like, you know, the Windows XP timeframe and I own the encrypting file system. I wrote this 100 page spec that when you should have full disk encryption, I won't mention names. They said the meeting ended after like 15 minutes. Like we're never going to do this. No one's ever going to pay for this. 00;35;10;27 - 00;35;27;06 Well, what do we do a few years later? we have bitlocker, right? So but like, you know, what Bob Muglia told me is like, you know, before in a different story, it's like it's like, hey, sometimes when you get set back, you don't just quit and walk away. You st patient resilience, right? Stick with it right in the time will come. 00;35;27;09 - 00;36;00;06 Yeah. No, I think that is such a good point. Patience. Organizational patience is a is a learned skill to. I don't think it's something that you're just born with. And I have seen and they've probably seen this too. I have seen what you call them in the Air Force fast burners like folks that are just, you know, amazing impact driven people that can get so much done, just not eight, not able to have the organizational patience and they burn out or they get frustrated or they cause drama. 00;36;00;09 - 00;36;20;12 And and if you can have that organizational patience because there is there's another truth sort of in the market, in the business world, the nonmilitary. Well, I'm sure there's an allegory in the military as well. But like sometimes you have the right idea too soon. The market's not ready. So having the patience to recognize that you can see the opportunities when to slide that and that's good business. 00;36;20;15 - 00;36;36;13 And it's kind of core to what success looks like. I mean, Microsoft had the tablets. Yeah, I joined in the early 2000, so. Right. You know, and right idea, probably not the right time for the market. Like people had to get used to playing on glass first which happened with the iPhone because they wanted their music with them wherever they go. 00;36;36;15 - 00;36;55;07 Once they got used to playing on glass, you could have an iPad, right? And it was a lot more streamlined and having to have a tablet that could spin around and also have a keyboard because people were already comfortable with glass. Like, I don't if that's exactly the way it plays out. But that's that's my interpretation of the way the market worked, even though, you know, Microsoft had some pretty amazing tablet computers in the early 2000s. 00;36;55;10 - 00;37;19;22 Yeah, we had the Zune, which I still use, you know, at my desk. You know, you can see it because that's audio, but I still have the Zune. I still run with it, you know, every day. So I know I now know two people that use the Zune, David Cross and Star-Lord from Guardians of the Galaxy. Yes. But you know, it might going back to a little bit about, you know, the fast burners, like it's, you know, the civilian world, like it's the Ferraris, right? 00;37;19;22 - 00;37;44;24 You're going to have Ferraris in the team. And it is a management leadership. Right. How you got to put the guardrails on the road. Otherwise, you know, you know what's getting jog your gaming language, right? You got a you the open map right at the games while you run all over, right? You know. Yeah. What you know how do how do people you know that are the fast burners of the military survive in a, you know, a slow moving corporate world. 00;37;44;26 - 00;38;01;09 Yeah. No, that's that's a that's a great question. And I love the kind of the analogy there. Right. So you've got one hand, you have Ferraris, but maybe need like some sort of like tank, like a like a like a g-wagon. They can really just push through all the muck and get things done. And how can you make one the other? 00;38;01;12 - 00;38;20;03 And I think actually, as a leader, like you can recognize the opportunities that are kind of paved. Like there are things where like the mission, the organization, the culture all lines up, but you can just run and get things done. And maybe it's not the biggest impactful thing, but it lets the Ferrari run and they sometimes just need to do that for the engine and for that talent just to stay happy. 00;38;20;05 - 00;38;34;01 So you find those, you let them run, but then you kind of use that to say, Now we have another tough gig coming up and that's kind of where you can teach them how to be a little bit more resilient to be that G-wagon that can just plow through the mud and get something done and pull out with it. 00;38;34;03 - 00;38;59;22 Now, maybe someday we'll meet some people that have Ferraris and G-wagon back. See if this analogy plays out in the real world, but bring it and put it in the mud, specifically the job crafting. So as you as you're speaking and I'm thinking about, there's a ton of Ferraris and there's a ton of kit cars that have the body of a Ferrari, but the insides maybe, I don't know, red flier, I don't know, something like that. 00;38;59;22 - 00;39;16;13 Right. So it's not quite made or built to sustain what their what their perception is creating for them to think that they can do these things that fast this way. And that's common. So you just kind of smash some things together. You know, you talked about how veterans, you know, are used to moving around a lot, 2 to 3 years. 00;39;16;13 - 00;39;40;27 If you take that in the private sector, it's like, well, your job hopping. That's how I consider success. It's what the job asks me to do. And I get promoted by take and duty stations and roles and things like that. So there's this interpretive translation that sometimes occurs for those that are smart about how to talk to others and learn more about what they do and how their change is apparent on, on, on paper. 00;39;41;00 - 00;40;20;06 But when it comes to now, having somebody where you understand what their ambitions are and how they're dialed in their capable of doing things, but you see that they're going to get impatient. Have you have you what are your thoughts on now creating that that that role of responsibility from other needs and kind of merging in some things to help pacify the ambition of somebody to where you're creating things that don't necessarily in the original job description, You know, you're actually making me think of another sort of truism that was hard for me to wrap my head around when you say that, which was sometimes you got to be okay letting talent go because it's 00;40;20;06 - 00;40;38;29 the best thing for them and the organization, even if they're amazing and like we are driven as leaders in general to not have negative attrition. You never want a good person to leave. And that kind of works against us. But I will say there are times, Chris, that you cannot do what you said where there there they are. 00;40;38;29 - 00;40;56;24 They are not going to be happy in role where they are. And I will say that, you know, especially in cybersecurity, I'm sure we don't have a monopoly on this, but especially in cybersecurity, when somebody takes a role at a different company, they're not dead. To us, that network is still there. And we talked about that at the beginning. 00;40;56;28 - 00;41;14;18 If you if you help them, I have actually helped myself. I've helped lose talent is I could tell it was the right thing and it was hard because it was going to cause more work for me. Right. So that's one thing I will just say is and then usually like we were talking about earlier, it will come full circle. 00;41;14;20 - 00;41;32;15 And if you have any kind of career, you're going to end up helping each other out again down the road. You know, Spirit is kind of interesting because we actually have bad guys just kind of like we have the military. And so if you really think about it, regardless of the company, in a lot of ways, we are all fighting the common enemy, which are the bad guys. 00;41;32;15 - 00;41;45;23 And so if you think about it that way, it kind of helps me wrap my head around what I just said. But I will also say that there are times where I've had some of my best director reports have really challenged me and they've really made me think about like, am I self-limiting in our mission? What else could we be doing? 00;41;45;24 - 00;42;06;21 Is there another part of the organization that's failing that we can help out in and this person really good at it? So to your point, Chris, about how do you create opportunities for somebody? A lot of times you look at where the where the business need is, like the the the biggest mistakes I made is when I tried to create something for somebody and it wasn't aligned with a business need because corporations are made of people, but they're not people. 00;42;06;23 - 00;42;25;00 Corporations are not people. They're not going to be nice. They have to survive. They have shareholders. You know, they're public. So as a result, like, you cannot get crossways is from what the business needs in the name of trying to get somebody is career ahead, you know. And if you do like maybe you'll get away with it for a little while because there is some slack in there. 00;42;25;00 - 00;42;44;21 You know, you never know. Nothing's it's not a perfect system. There are some friction and some lost. And so there's areas for people to do work inside the system that may not be perfectly aligned with the business and help them grow some skills right there, some room for that. But I will say like if you really try to create a you call a job crafting a role for a fast burner who's, you know, growing outside of their role. 00;42;44;21 - 00;43;00;17 But you think there is a need like tied to the business need that's going to if you don't, that's going to be bad for them and bad for you dog track and and that and that was good. You caught me on that one because that's a good that's a great response is is because a lot of people are fearful of the patriot. 00;43;00;17 - 00;43;20;20 Right. It's that asterisk on them. You know you had X percent a trip in this timeframe. I'm you know, are you a good leader? Are you effective leader? And the reality is the micro perspective is well for the greater good, this person's maybe my business, but the industry could use this person somewhere else. And you just I kind of alluded to it. 00;43;20;20 - 00;43;41;04 You know, you're thinking big, big picture for security. This person could be a great fit somewhere else and still contribute to the greater good of the industry itself. Yeah. So business goals in my mind translates into industry specific things, which is and I will say like we still work for a company. So like if you've looked around and there truly isn't a business need that fits that person's role than yeah, then that's an option. 00;43;41;06 - 00;43;58;04 But where I would make a mistake would be if there was a business, see where this talent could be really helpful and I let them go. I probably made a mistake. So really it goes all back to the business and how they align the business to the person. Well, there's the other element. I think as we all run into sometimes is that every company is not going to grow in size increasing.…

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Career Chasing: How to Position Yourself When Considering Careers 46:07

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In this episode, David and I discuss how to prepare for career change and choices. We took this opportunity to get David's perspective on how important decisions begin with planning and being flexible. A plan is just a plan and sometimes what we thought would be the path to the goal changes unexpectedly. We need to anticipate that things won't always go as planned and say yes to the opportunities that rise as a result. David Cross - https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-b-cross-b856657/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;28;06 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this episode and joined by our co-host David Cross, senior Vice President Sass, Chief Information Security Officer within Oracle. 00;00;28;07 - 00;00;44;12 Here we are, folks. Season three. It's been a while since we've come together to deliver a new episode, and we're ready to kick off our new season with new conversation. These newer topics sometimes bringing back previous guests and maybe we'll go deeper into past conversations. We hope all of you are well and putting in the work to be better. 00;00;44;14 - 00;01;00;15 If not, listen in and maybe we can help change that. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. 00;01;00;19 - 00;01;08;12 David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. 00;01;08;14 - 00;01;48;27 All right, so season three, first episode of Season three. We're coming at you for career oriented conversation, joined here with David Cross. Many of you already know. He's our MAVEN podcast co-host and he's got specialization in a particular career field. So as we were talking about what we should be considering to discuss in this new season as we roll into summer, but career choices, you know, this might be the season where many of you are getting ready to transition, whether out of service or from careers where being relevant matters and trying to understand what it takes and what people look for. 00;01;49;00 - 00;02;15;03 David's going to share some information I'll probe a little bit on, you know, before you make the decision, what are the considerations? And we've talked many, many times about this particular topic or decision making process in previous episodes. You hear about it a lot in everywhere else. Probably every self-help book is critical thinking, some sort of element of emotional intelligence, things that go into how you're going to decide what you're going to do. 00;02;15;06 - 00;02;32;03 It starts from, we believe, what do you want to do and the passion that comes through that. And so, David, it's nice to see again. You know, Chris, it's great to be back, right? You know, it's kind of like, you know, I'm we're excited about this next season here. It's kind of like your favorite TV show, you know, Netflix, right? 00;02;32;03 - 00;02;50;00 You know, selling Sunset. I know you get really excited every time there's a new season and kind of like, you know, when they went down to Orange County, Right. They kind of got to change it up a bit and talk about that. So, you know, I think this is going to be a fun season of like we talk about careers, maybe we have some some outside guests, you know, that also help us in like, you know, how do we make this transition? 00;02;50;02 - 00;03;09;12 We want to mix it up and kind of, you know, up it a bit and get people excited about it. So it's sometimes these seasons take a little longer than we like, just like Netflix, but we're, you know, we'll see. We can do better. So if anybody's been paying attention to every episode, David says, I look forward to these things. 00;03;09;14 - 00;03;26;11 It's up to you to decide if I'm really a fan of I don't know what you said. Would you say the sunset selling sunset? You know, I know you like all the real estate and the cars they drive and, you know, the Hollywood properties. So yeah, you know, we'll talk about that another time. Yeah, another time. Yes, it is. 00;03;26;11 - 00;03;46;17 You know, it it is always interesting. You know, sometimes we take a little hiatus to, you know, focus on other things, but also, you know, take priorities as they come. And maybe it's just a another way of just realizing what else can we do to be more impactful and how do we consider, you know, reassess and this is the after action review is like, how were we effective? 00;03;46;17 - 00;04;07;03 And, you know, are there other things that we should try in order to make sure that we're keeping up with the things that people will want to talk about or want to listen to? And so the one thing that we can never get away from is career choices, because we know, you know, that's that that's an important area of conversation in any circle that you're in. 00;04;07;06 - 00;04;30;28 Excuse me, but it's just a matter of understanding the depth in which to go into these these things. And so we're talking security, cyber, career choice. You know, David, I'd like to get into some of the depth of what it what it means to consider what choice you're going to make, what career choice you're going to make. But, you know, let's start with this one. 00;04;31;01 - 00;04;54;21 What matters most? Is it theory or education or experience? You know, it's a great question, Kristen. I know this like a big debate. Like I was at a conference last week and people were you know, we were talking a little bit about is like, do you have to have a degree, you know, to be successful in computer science or do you have to have a degree to be, you know, successful or get into cybersecurity? 00;04;54;24 - 00;05;13;12 And the answer is, I'm going to say, no, you don't. However, right. I think it's really the most important point is there's different ways to get into things, right? You know, just like getting into sports, writing notes to some people. Do you have a professional trainer, some people are. They get their their parents, you know, you know, kind of guide them. 00;05;13;12 - 00;05;29;26 Other people, it's natural. But ultimately, it's like, what is the result you want, Right? You know, saying that if you're a tennis are running, right, you have to have a set of skills, right? And you have to be able to demonstrate those skills. Like right now, I think around the world and certainly we're watching late this weekend, the Olympic trials. 00;05;29;26 - 00;05;45;06 Right. You have to have a set of skills. Are you in the Olympics, are not like, can you take a get a degree and get in the Olympics? No. You have to demonstrate your skills. So I think that's the point here. Everybody is like, if you want to get to computer science, can you write a program? yeah. 00;05;45;09 - 00;06;03;04 Can you show me that you can write a program? Can you put it on GitHub and let me see it? Same thing for cybersecurity, right? Can you pen test? Can you identify a vulnerability? Right. Can you evaluate a threat? Well, can you show me Right. It just like diving. Can you dive in the pool, not make a splash? 00;06;03;04 - 00;06;26;18 Show me. Right. I think it's the best place to start. No, I like that. And thanks for that. And that that I feel like many who would be listening would say, Well, that's the scraping the surface. It sounds like you have very specific examples. And I would assume then if I'm taking notes, that if if you as an expert or would you consider yourself an expert in these areas. 00;06;26;20 - 00;06;46;22 Yeah, there's always debate. Am I an expert or subject matter expert or am I an influencer to say I'm going to say I have 30 patents in the United States and most almost all of them are security. So I'm going to say, yeah, I am an expert for today. Buy that for a dollar selling sunset clip right there. 00;06;46;27 - 00;07;15;18 You see the reference there. Gotcha. That jokes. All right. So 30 patents in the U.S. You correct. Okay. So I'm going to put a pin in that one. We'll come back to it. So, you know, off the top of your head, you were talking about very specific examples of something that somebody would have to prove to you and show you and say, So can you help us figure out what if if I were to be someone who is interested, I have and I'm going to put a pin in this one, too. 00;07;15;18 - 00;07;42;19 I have a passion for technology and it just so seems to now drive me towards security because of either the career field seems to be trending or somebody told me that it's place to a place to go or what have you. For whatever reason I'm interested in it. What are some of the things that I would look at that somebody like you who would, you know, are are you're worth is going to be determined based off of the things that you're able to demonstrate. 00;07;42;20 - 00;08;05;12 What are the top things that I would need to focus on to be able to make sure that I'm aligning beginning my career choice or beginning the skill development that I can make sure that I'm not veering too far away from. Sure, I will. I'm going to go back a little bit to kind of my career and kind of like, how do I truly break into cybersecurity right now? 00;08;05;12 - 00;08;23;24 I think that there's a lot of people you hear about, go take this class or get this certification or this thing's on Coursera and magically you're a cybersecurity person. In the end, I'm going to go back is it's about demonstrate something. So I got into Microsoft. I was in I got I won't do the story of like how I get in Microsoft, but I got my foot in the door of Microsoft. 00;08;23;24 - 00;08;40;02 But I wanted to be in security. I wanted to be in Windows Security. And at the time I was in Microsoft Consulting, just like Oracle Consulting, right? But I wanted to be in the product group. I wanted to be in the Windows Security product group. At the time, I said, Well, David, you know, there's program managers are hiring. 00;08;40;02 - 00;08;59;08 Is that how do I be one? They said, well, program managers, they write white papers, right? They actually speak at conferences to our comfort customers. So, okay, so then what did I do? So I was working with customers and I found a need. Right? Because just like being in like in business, right? You find a need this time it's going to go way back. 00;08;59;08 - 00;09;30;26 This is the Windows 94.0. And they also had a thing called Windows Certificate Server 1.0, an exchange server, and say, How do you connect a certificate server to the Microsoft Exchange Server and CMS so you can actually encryption right in in in your your exchange email deployment. There was no real documentation about this. So what I did is I worked on with the product group and others in my free time and I wrote a white paper about it. 00;09;30;26 - 00;09;51;07 It became the Microsoft whitepaper, like, how do you integrate certificate server exchange CMS and getting it all to work? And it became a public white paper, right? There was a need, there was a demand and people like, bang, this is useful, this is valuable, this is security. And Mr. Cross, you did it. Another element is they said, well, they speak at conferences. 00;09;51;10 - 00;10;07;15 Well, I'm on the clock. I'm in consulting. Right. They don't pay me to go to a conference like now. So I wrote a paper or an abstract, things like that. And I went and spoke at Microsoft Tech. Ed And then I also spoke at the RSA Conference. I took vacation on my own time because they're not going to pay for me to go do this. 00;10;07;15 - 00;10;27;21 I took vacation. I got good scores on. There's to say, this is what I want to do. They said, okay, David, this is nice. But, you know, that's a one year one hit wonder. Like, just kind of like your favorite bands you talk about Chris Quinn before this podcast is Well, I spent time with that. Here we go there. 00;10;27;23 - 00;10;52;29 So I wrote another white paper right? I ended up writing, you know, over the course of a year, five white papers in my free time spoke at two conferences and said, Will you let me in? Right? And I said, Maybe you're not the best that we thought of, but great. You showing the passion things. We talk about this package, that passion, determination, the ability to learn right, and ability to adapt right, customer focused. 00;10;53;01 - 00;11;12;28 And they let me in, right? And that was the start of the journey, right? But coming back to Element is identifying need, right? Identify gap right. Go right about it. Create an artifact, create a deliverable. So how do you demonstrate you can do something? You know, Chris you think about is you know think about kids in school, right? 00;11;13;01 - 00;11;29;28 Things like how do you know what they're doing? Can they write a paper? Can they produce something? Do they have a project that's the trick here. And once you have, it's very tangible. And I would say, gosh, we'd let you into our company. You know what a junior position is like? Yeah, look what I wrote. Look what I can do. 00;11;30;01 - 00;11;52;17 It's very easy to convince someone that you may be eligible for that. Got it. There's a ton of good nuggets in there. Thanks for that. So the need and demand, I mean, that I think probably is a place to start for some of this is to recognize the need. And again, I go back to the individual need and the external need. 00;11;52;18 - 00;12;12;27 Right. So do you need it? Do you want it? Do you need to feel like you X Right. And that I think, is important. Do you feel like you need to do this? Do you feel like you want to do this right? And what's the difference? Right. And I think some of this is circling around a personal passion because you're talking about using your free time to do things that are setting you up. 00;12;12;29 - 00;12;34;05 And I'm oversimplifying it, but it is, in fact, one of those things to say, if I'm wanting to achieve these things, then I, I need to consider how far you're willing to go in order to have success there and some of what you were sharing. Again, you know, cutting it down to very simple approaches is to say, I want to do this. 00;12;34;12 - 00;12;54;17 You use phrases like foot in the door. That's common, especially through veterans or service members getting ready to transition. I just want to get my foot in the door and I will represent recruiting. That was advocate on the side hearing from a candidate. I'm just trying to get a foot in the door. Be careful with that because it's it's important for you to believe that. 00;12;54;20 - 00;13;11;11 And that can be something you keep inside your head. But if a hiring manager hears this from people now, it draws the question commitment. If it means that I I've given you a chance to get a foot in the door, don't misunderstand it to be don't misunderstand that to be something that's going to help you in every case. 00;13;11;11 - 00;13;29;14 Because now I, I as a hiring manager, I may shy away from that because now I'm looking at I want you to be here for as long as we need you and you want to be here. That indicates that you're going to be here until you have what you need to move on to something else because your long term goals don't include what you're interviewing for. 00;13;29;14 - 00;13;44;15 So put a pin in that one. But need demand. Do you want to do it? Do you need to do it? Is this going to be fulfilling? If you're in a second phase of a career, you've probably achieved all the things that you wanted to in the first one. Is this a transition from something that you're well established in? 00;13;44;17 - 00;14;06;04 If it is, you probably already understand the key elements of what to do moving forward. You may be questioning what you've already achieved, has given you the already existing mindset and skill and attitude to represent or demonstrate your desire, your ability in these types of things because you've done it already. But sometimes we get tempted to forget that because it's new. 00;14;06;06 - 00;14;24;09 We think that we have to start from zero, but maybe you don't. So, David, maybe let's hit on that. What? By the time that you were saying before you went into that first role where you wanted to get your foot in the door, what did you already acquire? What had you already acquired and accomplished to get to that part? 00;14;24;11 - 00;14;41;28 Well, I think the I don't know if I've talked about this before, but element is I've looked at the company right. And what is kind of like the basic, you know, kind of criteria they're looking at for someone that would be valuable like. So I was going like, you know, my first role was Microsoft Consulting. What do they need to do? 00;14;41;29 - 00;15;03;23 Right? And so I tried to understand, you know, this is the days before LinkedIn, and I think we had heard of Monster Board was around back then and is like almost 29 years ago. Right. You know, it's like, what are they looking for? You know, what do they want people to have said, I they actually have this called the Microsoft Certifications, the Microsoft Certified Professional, the MCP program. 00;15;03;23 - 00;15;30;16 Right. And so it was kind of expensive at the time, but like, I'm still in the service. I took a a week of leave. Right. And of Malcolm all day is just a convocation of like a week on leave, right. Taking and things like that. So I went to took a microsoft class, you know, my third party, right, Because this is like 30 years ago, you know, like $2,000 or $3,000, very expensive for one week class. 00;15;30;16 - 00;15;48;13 Right. They said, I'm going to go in, take the certification class in tech, not are learning it right, get certified, take the you know take the exam and saying, hey, I've got the bare minimum, like give me a chance because I know that I could demonstrate at this time. Right. Getting those exams in courses were a demonstration of the skills that I had. 00;15;48;14 - 00;16;05;17 Right. That was in addition to that, hey, in my home time. Right. Things like that still in the service. Like I had a computer, I installed Windows 93.51. Right. I'm learning the Windows and T system, right? Because I knew this is what they need people to do. This is what enterprises are doing. This is the job I want. 00;16;05;17 - 00;16;23;21 So I'm going to get hands on my free time doing this type of things. And eventually it did this all. It said Microsoft, give me a shot at it. I've got these skills, right? Can you give me a shot and just just let me in and I'll demonstrate it. And a lot of a lot of work and demonstration of that. 00;16;23;26 - 00;16;48;21 And I got in. And the reality is also sounds bad, but it is the what I wanted is that I was doing consulting other things outside of Microsoft, but I wanted in the club, right. I want in the high tech I took a 50% pay cut to get into Microsoft because it was the long term. I was going for the long term, not the short term win a 50% pay cut of my stupid, but I knew I was betting on the long term. 00;16;48;21 - 00;17;13;05 And that's what you have to think about. Everybody. Yeah, that's the sacrifice. Right? So it's it comes down to just to summarize, what I heard is, you know, fundamentals. You establish fundamentals, certifications is, you know, top layer of understanding through information, right? You're getting the acclimate to be familiar with. And then what the key thing here is the connection. 00;17;13;05 - 00;17;35;08 And we've already talked about this, how important it is relationship building, right? So when you're when you're asking things of others, it's the reciprocating value, right? It's I'm give me a chance. I'll give you this. Give me your time. I'll give you this. You know, there's there's that part. So the relationship building seemed to appeared to have been key because you're you're you're you're asking somebody to bet on you. 00;17;35;10 - 00;17;57;10 And so through this demonstration of things, you know, it's it's important for us to remember that. The other part here is you said it, you took a 50% pay cut, which means it's only half. Remember, I was talking about you don't have to start from zero if you already acquired or accumulated something. So I know it's not the same, but just the context of some being symbolic. 00;17;57;13 - 00;18;16;05 You didn't take 100% pay cut. You took a 50% pay cut. So it means that you were in some place and then you wanted to shift and you did these things to prove value. You established yourself in a way to understand the fundamentals of not only the skill sets, but relationship building to to get somebody to want to listen, let alone bet. 00;18;16;08 - 00;18;33;10 And then, you know, you had to make a sacrifice and you determined what was going to be acceptable for you based off of the perspective that you have. This is a long term game. This is this is the marathon versus the sprint thing. I think you put I think you got me spot on there or, you know, four things. 00;18;33;10 - 00;18;51;18 It's like it's a transition. It's a choice. Right? And you take with every choice, it's kind of like there's opportunity costs, right? You know, there's physical cost, there's logistical costs, all the things. And you make these choice for that transition and that's what you go for. You're making a bet, right? Just like you make a bet on the roulette wheel in Las Vegas. 00;18;51;18 - 00;19;17;16 Right. You're making a bet is that return can be big enough. I bet the return was going to be big enough and it proved to be true. But and that's what it's all about, the choice you make. Yep. Choices. So. So let's. Let's go then. So now. Now we've established kind of the mindset you should have, right? This is, this is, you know, for those of us and I'll split it up into some categories to make sure that I'm speaking to each of you, whoever you are. 00;19;17;16 - 00;19;38;26 Right? So there's the early career folks beginning, which means that you've spent your latter part of, you know, your late teens, early adult life doing something to get to somewhere. So I'm speaking to you. You know, we're talking about those the mid-career midlife stage, right. So that could be, you know, anywhere from the mid to late twenties, all the way up to whatever. 00;19;38;26 - 00;19;56;22 Fill in the blank. Right. And then you've got the other right. And that's those of that of, you know, if you go by a job description, it's, you know, 0 to 3 years, 3 to 5 years, you know, 8 to 10 years. Think of it in the context of that. When when you're looking at qualifications, somebody is presenting you what's what's necessary to qualify for this role, to have a conversation. 00;19;56;24 - 00;20;14;16 You're determining at that point, do you do you match? And if you don't, you're thinking about who you are and what you bring to the table. And then you're you're landing on what am I willing to do and what am I willing to not do? What am I willing to sacrifice? So you're building your boundaries. That's important. So now you're at the table. 00;20;14;16 - 00;20;43;13 You have this conversation and you land on the opportunity where somebody is presenting it to you and then says, okay, show me. And then, David, you had mentioned, you know, I've done these things, so I'm going to kind of mix this really quickly into this next questions, because what does it take to get to 30 patents? Well, I have been in the industry for 30 years almost, but what does it take? 00;20;43;15 - 00;21;06;10 Well, the first part is like many things, it's it's like, you know, a running race. Right. What's it take to complete a5k? What's it take to complete a ten? Okay. Well, the first and foremost, the first one's the hardest, isn't it. Right. But with that said is how do we mostly get through the first one? It's usually because you have an inspiration. 00;21;06;12 - 00;21;27;11 You have someone that you look up to. You have a model, right? And often I think for many of us, for you know, that really get into running and races, especially after our, you know, high school, college, whatever, just in life saying, you get to go start doing a you're going to go do a half marathon, someone inspires you, someone coaches you, Right. 00;21;27;18 - 00;21;52;07 How you find someone, right. To help you through that first one. And after that, it's kind of like after you do your first five K, Chris, you know, is in the second one much easier. No big deal. Right? And I think that's what happens is you get you get that a coach and I think that's a big part of our topic here is you find someone inspires you, someone this that motivates you, find someone that can help you through that first one. 00;21;52;10 - 00;22;20;17 It just like in the career and from there it's then, you know, practice, practice, practice. Got it. Thanks for that. And that was intentional because a lot of us want, metaphorically speaking, we want the three patents. Now, I want to get to where you are, David. Now, why I'm asking that question after establishing what we did early in this conversation is because it takes it takes a couple of things to get to that part clearly. 00;22;20;17 - 00;22;42;28 And I'm not trying to be insulting to anybody who's listening. What I'm saying is, don't forget, it takes a while to get to the part of what you're going to consider to be the goal. And you don't know when or how long it's going to start or end, let's say. But you got to decide. You have to decide what it is that you want to do. 00;22;42;29 - 00;23;02;09 You have to now consider what it is that you're willing to do and not do, and then you present that and then you start. And I think any entrepreneur will appreciate this. Just start like you indicated, here is the first one may be the hardest, but we often know that if I'm not familiar with it, it's not comfortable. 00;23;02;11 - 00;23;20;05 I'm uncertain. I don't know what's going to happen. And that sometimes creates the self-talk to where we hesitate, we procrastinate. We, you know, we set it for next year. Tomorrow, we always say, I'll get it to the next time or whatever, but just starting is going to get you in the mix because it's not a one time one hit wonder. 00;23;20;07 - 00;23;53;07 It takes repetitive motion in order to get to the parts that help you understand through the experience what it takes to build the experience that when you get to experience or when you get to demonstrate it to somebody, they can hear it in the examples that you're providing. So you chose to go into this field. What were the determining factors after you've gotten your foot in the door and as you progressed, you know, what are some of the things that you seem to have introduced to keep you, I guess, moving forward? 00;23;53;07 - 00;24;13;03 But more, more so, you know, not only maintaining your motivation, but your inspiration, your desire to continue to grow. What are some of the things that you can talk through as far as what got you to want to continue? Well, I think it's hard. I think, well, I'll give you the hard part and then the easy part, Right? 00;24;13;05 - 00;24;36;25 The hard part is the reality is you need to work on something you love, right? And because it's hard to do something for 30 years unless you love it. Right. And I think there's a lot of people that say, hey, you can make more money doing X, right? Or but you really love working on cars. Right? You know, is like, can you some people can do it, others cannot. 00;24;36;25 - 00;24;57;03 Right. I think the thing for me about what I loved about security is it's always dynamic. You know, I think one of my strengths and weaknesses is that my brain is always working right. It's always going to be moving If I'm not, I can't sit there for 5 minutes and my brain not working, I'll go crazy. And so I have to be reading or doing something or running, running. 00;24;57;03 - 00;25;16;19 I can't be running without listening to something. I'll I'll go mental. You know, I have to let a podcast. So the thing about security is it's always dynamic, it's always changing. Everyone says it's always a horse race between the attackers and the defenders because it's always a horse race is very dynamic. And for me, that keeps me energized, right? 00;25;16;21 - 00;25;34;23 And because of that, then also also there's a demand. Let's do the simple economics thing, supply demand, right, to supply people that want to or can work on security and the demand of people that need to work on security, great. It creates a nice economic benefit right on that. And so I like things in life are simple, as simple as that. 00;25;34;23 - 00;25;55;09 So great, you know, it's a win win. And so I think that's what continues to drive me. There's always ways to move up, but you do reach a point in your career and say that, Hey, I'm happy, right? You know, because it's about we got the topics of work life balance. Work life choice, you know, is what people think as you move up in the world and move up in the ranks of a company in management, Right. 00;25;55;11 - 00;26;15;00 Life gets easier. It gets harder and harder. You always have to make a choice. It's like, what's enough? Enough's enough right here at the right balance. But that's a whole nother, I think, podcast on it right? But also, I'm going to go back to another point here is you talked about moving up. Is that the again, it's about a marathon, right? 00;26;15;00 - 00;26;28;28 It's a career at the long term is that I think I talked about it at a conference last week is that you stop, you get your foot in the door and you don't move to the top of the ladder in two years. Right. People that say, I want to be in security, I want to be a CSO, right? 00;26;29;00 - 00;26;46;05 It took me 30 years to be a C, so right here, 25 years to be a C, So right. Did I do it of one step like I became a leader of a five person team. And my next step is to become a CEO of a 300 person team? No, it's about a long term marathon plan. It will take time. 00;26;46;05 - 00;27;14;12 Right. And you're making a bet to get that point. And then you peak, you know, but it's not a it's you have to think about all the steps along the way. And those steps could take you 15 years. Did you know that when you started? I did. I did. I think is you know, I could say the my dream when I joined Microsoft at the beginning, I says, you know, the product people said, after ten years, I want to run, you know, building 26, Building 26 was it was windows at the time. 00;27;14;12 - 00;27;32;13 So I want to be running windows. Right. Be a vice president of Windows. Now, ten years later, I wasn't running windows, but ten years later I was running Windows Security Organization. You know, so I said a big aspiration, a big goal. I didn't get the at the end, you know, the full thing, but maybe it was little bit too aspirational. 00;27;32;13 - 00;28;01;08 But I got a big, you know, major achievement, you know, going from nothing to ten years. I'm running the Windows Security organization, something that affects the whole world. Can't complain. Well, in that and you and you hadn't planned for that. I never had say this clearly. It wasn't part of your plan to be that specific in Windows security because you were wanting to do just Windows, not just windows, but focus on Windows, which for me, not knowing the depth of it, is different, I'm assuming. 00;28;01;11 - 00;28;23;12 Was that a shift in your original plan? I mean, you know, did you realize that you were moving away from your original plan as it was occurring? Because sometimes when you're in the middle of it, you don't realize what's happening. So was that was that something that was occurring where you realized all of a sudden or did you see it evolve over time and then you started if your mind's always working, did you already connect this as things were happening? 00;28;23;12 - 00;28;43;25 You you were keeping a pulse on the shift away from the original goal. Yeah, I think, you know, I think that's a great question, Chris. I think it's it's kind of an evolution as you evolve. It's like you set a plan, right? And there's an element of you see some benefits of things and like what you get into a rhythm on you know, it's kind of like running routes. 00;28;43;25 - 00;28;58;13 Let's go back, you know, is the word of analogy. Like you start to run like, I'm going to run a marathon. But then you're saying, what routes do I want to train with? What routes do I'm comfortable with, What shoes do I like? Right. You kind of start to get to really to say, you know, yeah, I would do a marathon, but I'm not going to do a trail marathon. 00;28;58;13 - 00;29;15;00 I'm not going to do a Boston marathon. I just want to do a nice flat marathon or I want to do one that's, you know, of, you know, this type of terrain or you know, of type of things. And that becomes your preference And you're like, that's okay, right? You know, you adjusted because of how you feel, how you get comfortable with it. 00;29;15;00 - 00;29;31;06 And that's a big part of it. And as I got more and more security, that's where I wanted to be. I realized, no, this is me, right? This is who I am. I'm not the Boston Marathon type. And my going to try to be that right. And I'm happy with that. And so that's I think exactly you described. 00;29;31;06 - 00;29;50;01 I got it. So excuse me. The message then is don't forget who you are. Right. And the things that you've achieved indicate who you are. And if you want to have stretch goals, it's absolutely fine. But just keep in mind, because what we're not wanting to do is have you be tempted to stay where you are and then use the excuse? 00;29;50;01 - 00;30;04;24 Well, that's just who I am. No, Sometimes it's a choice in certain things to where it's who you choose to be. But if you want something different and you go back to what we just previously talked about, you know, what do you want to do and how do you envision yourself getting to where you want to be? What are you going to sacrifice? 00;30;04;24 - 00;30;30;17 Those types of things. So so always a demand, always changing. You'd mentioned that today. How important is security? Well, as you see in the news every week and it's kind of like, we did a podcast or we talk about, hey, the we've got a deal. I think this one will come out later. But like in of all the car dealers, right, You know, the software used by all car dealers. 00;30;30;17 - 00;30;48;19 Right. They're all shut down, right. You know, because of ransomware and cybersecurity. Right. It hasn't ended. It's you know, it's continued to be number one for until I die. Right. I'm going to say that for sure. Right. Of confidence in saying that. And I also plan on living for a much longer time, not looking. I die quickly here. 00;30;48;19 - 00;31;08;16 Everybody will keep running those flat marathons. You'll be fine. There's no risk. I pulled back, right? Is like I'm not aspirational. Go for marathons anymore. Half is good enough for me at this stage, but it's still important, right? That's great. It's something I love. It's still important. You know, I've chosen that and I stick with it. Right. But the same time, Right. 00;31;08;17 - 00;31;28;04 I hope I have switched companies. Right? I was at Microsoft, which I love, right? I went to Google. I've been Oracle. I do make switches, right? Because sometimes you just say that maybe I get too comfortable or like, hey, I'm not you know, I'm not expiring, aspiring to anything anymore. Right. And that's when you take that little bit of a a minor reset or a minor shift, Right. 00;31;28;04 - 00;31;47;00 Saying I need to adjust a little bit, make a move and where you go. And I think that's where the most enjoyment comes from. The do you think or how do you think technology influences that last part where there's always a demand it's not going to go away as technology becomes now, everything you know, again, I'm summarizing, right? 00;31;47;00 - 00;32;07;26 But how important is it where the technology or the the place in which you do this, how important is that in your decision making? it's very important. And coming back to our conference last week, they spoke it is there is discussion which are about CISOs in a technology and people staying up to date. Here's a reality. Someone called it out. 00;32;07;26 - 00;32;25;08 I said, CISOs, if you're not learning A.I. right now, you're pretty much you're done in two years, right? A.I. Artificial intelligence is not going away. It's going to affect almost everybody, right? We go back to, you know, computers 20 years ago. If you're not learning, a computer are going to be able to keep a job. No way. Right. 00;32;25;11 - 00;32;51;28 Nowadays, can you can anyone get a job and not use a computer anywhere anymore? Right. Almost impossible. Right. There's maybe a few things. Agriculture, maybe not. But putting that aside. So now looking forward in many of our jobs is not just technical people, but he is part of the life for the rest of our lives. Right? If you can't adapt to that, you cannot learn that you're going to be stale in two years. 00;32;52;02 - 00;33;19;06 Right. And I think that's the reality. And two years may be an arbitrary time selection. Maybe not. I don't know. It doesn't matter. But the point is, whatever the timeline is, it goes by quick. Right. And so the preparation, the steps involved in order to get you ready as an individual that's looking to pursue something either for the first time or transition from where you are into something different, which is in the space security. 00;33;19;08 - 00;33;42;15 There's things there are things involved that takes time to accumulate based off of everything that we're talking about. So with that, what do you feel is the most significant change that's occurring outside of what you just talked about? Outside of I boy, that's what A.I. is going to change a lot, right? I think in a lot of good things, you know, But, you know, I won't say necessarily bad things, right? 00;33;42;18 - 00;33;59;07 You know, born and raised in Detroit. Right. And they said, you know, the seventies, eighties, Right. Robots are going to kill all the manufacturing. Now, they didn't. It was just a shift. Right. I think I give you the same thing I think is what's the other you know shift is I think the air power is still the biggest one. 00;33;59;12 - 00;34;22;29 You know, top of mind is that how do we there's a good analogy that or a talk that people say that the people that use AI are going to be more productive than ever. Right? That people who don't use AI are the people that are going to be in trouble. Right. And I think that's reality. So, Chris, are you not using AI in creating the transcript for the podcast? 00;34;23;02 - 00;34;43;00 We are. See, did you think you think about it three years ago? Could you think of that? You thought of that, that we would, you know, have a you know, in thought of that would you know, that's a great point and half jokes but not because that change adapting to change I think is kind of the the subsequent parallel here. 00;34;43;00 - 00;35;01;00 Right. It's a for me, that particular case when I was presented with, hey, we're shifting the format now you have to review the document. I was absolutely not on board initially, right. And it was because it was to me, it was an inconvenience. I had to read through it. Is it is it translating properly what it did do? 00;35;01;02 - 00;35;30;03 And I'll be very specific with this had this conversation last night, as a matter of fact, with a couple of my peers in the team that I was working on. It's making me better as it translates in the way that I'm communicating. Am I articulating? Am I enunciating how I'm speaking is actually now being captured in a way to where I'm looking at it and say, and I use that kind of a symbolic way of understanding if it's if it's putting into words the language that I'm using and the way that I'm phrasing things. 00;35;30;05 - 00;35;49;19 Is it understood on the other end? Is it being received properly? And so I'm looking at it from that perspective that allowed me to find something in the inevitable right changes and inevitable right. We do it every minute of our life. It's changing and evolving. But I had to I had to get my head wrapped around the reality that here's the thing that we love to do. 00;35;49;19 - 00;36;09;16 We love having the conversations technology that's using or that's being used in order to improve. This particular offering is incorporating A.I.. It's using now that technology to take words and make it available and accessible for other people. So I had to kind of think and rewire my brain on how I'm adapting to change. And it took a minute. 00;36;09;18 - 00;36;28;29 And then after a while, I started to establish a better understanding of its use through critical thinking and emotional intelligence, just consideration of others. I think, is the premise of it. It's going to be beneficial to somebody. So then I was able to adapt to that. And I think that is the the initial reluctance, you know, kind of what you're hinting is obvious. 00;36;28;29 - 00;36;48;25 Hey, Chris, you're using it today. You know, did you know? And the answer is like, yeah, I didn't really think about it until later. So there's that. I think that's part of the process also is, you know, spinning it back to career choices. It's not going away. And it's not just technology is not going right. Security is absolutely not going away. 00;36;48;25 - 00;37;11;13 In fact, it's, you know, one 2% necessary for everything that's here. The changing of it, you know, the things that are involved includes not only the use of it, but how it's now being are influencing society in ways that it's modifying the way we're thinking about what we're doing right. And it's giving us a better estimate of how effective we are. 00;37;11;13 - 00;37;31;18 And I use my example, use yours, but it is helping make you better if it's used properly, right? I mean, there's other things that, you know, when you kind of how do you say when you take it and not take it for granted, but you abuse it, you know, and used for other things, There's that too, which is kind of indirectly the same, but. 00;37;31;20 - 00;38;08;04 All right. So going back to careers, somebody decided this is what they want to do. What can you tell them right now today, if somebody was in front of you asking for that that break, what do you say? The. Yeah, the you know, the I have to say, I mean, to go back to A.I. right now, there's of compared to like machine learning from, you know, ten years ago it was very hard to learn and it take a lot you know, but almost people had to go back almost to college or college level, you know, kind of education to really how to use it. 00;38;08;07 - 00;38;33;24 A.I. is much different, much simpler. And there's a huge demand for people to use A.I. and how to use A.I., everything from prompt, not just from a security perspective, but I think as if anybody wants a leap in a change. Right now, A.I. is crystal clear. There's lots of opportunities, and if myself, I'm learning it because I don't want to be phased out to be stale in two years. 00;38;33;26 - 00;38;49;23 But if anybody is, you know, saying you got a little bit of freedom, you got a little bit of time, and it's not going take a lot of time, and you want to jump into a new world that's exploding and not going away, jump into A.I. and there's training and education, other things jumping in. There's tons of opportunity. 00;38;49;23 - 00;39;09;15 Everybody, I'd like to see that someone actually knows A.I. and how to help implement it, you know, in a company or applications or other types of things, you can't get a job. Yeah, I think something else is wrong. Got it. What would that be considered From what you just said, like the most basic place to start, Is it just diving in? 00;39;09;15 - 00;39;32;23 I mean, how. How would I know exactly where to start today with what's available in order to not get ahead of myself by just doing a search for A.I.? Learn A.I., and then you start there where I don't want to start in the middle. I want to start the beginning. Yeah, I think there's a limit. So I think there's tons of things on Coursera, Microsoft, Oracle, others. 00;39;32;23 - 00;39;51;15 Right? You all have had introduction to A.I. and how to use it in their systems and actually getting to be an implementer or a user, right? Or someone that can be a practitioner, you know, in these things is all these companies are looking to implement. But not everyone's ready to jump on it. Like is like many companies, they want to start doing it, but they need some help, right? 00;39;51;15 - 00;40;07;13 You're like, Great, Google learn it, right? And then you can help other companies that need that talent. Because I know there's there's many companies, especially small and medium businesses especially. Right. It's like they're going to have people learning and onboarding to this in helping them know they need it. And they're going to hire people that can help them with that. 00;40;07;17 - 00;40;34;09 And that's an opportunity when there's a need, that means that's something you go after, right? And it's crystal clear everyone's trying to do it. Ooh, I was getting ready to kind of just taper us off to the start. But you just mentioned one thing. How do I stand out from others if everybody's doing it and everybody's using it and everybody's trying to learn how to do it, how do I stand out to be the David of 30 years ago today? 00;40;34;12 - 00;40;48;22 You know, I think coming back to an element is, you know, showing the the the artifacts of that. Right. It's you can start for easy. There's lots of things. Do you do you have a blog right. Do you have a podcast? Do you have a video blog? Right. You have a YouTube channel, right? Do you have a GitHub repo? 00;40;49;00 - 00;41;10;23 Do you have a medium, you know, kind of or substack, you know, kind of things? If you know some things, write it down, create an artifact, right? It's not about writing big white paper to write a blog, you know, do a podcast, you know, things like that, build your repository, build your portfolio of things you know how to do, and then you put it in your resume and say, Hey, Chris, you know, I heard you're looking for someone. 00;41;10;26 - 00;41;25;05 Take a look at my work right? You know, say people like, I look at your resume, I don't know if you know, do it like, hey, go look at my web, my, my YouTube channel, go look at my my medium blog and things like that and show you that I know what I'm doing. Right. And and guess what? 00;41;25;08 - 00;41;45;03 People will be interested, right? Because it's so easy. Because they don't have to interview you. Because people do it. Like interviewing people that might be worthless. No, it's a waste of our time, right? We only want to interview people that we think are going to pass and are be great. Right? But if you make it so easy for someone to see that what you can really do in total safety, right? 00;41;45;06 - 00;42;01;10 They're like, great, They're going to pick it. If you got the stuff, they're going to grab you really quick because it's so easy and safe for that, right? Do the investment. I know. Chris, do you like to be you know, you want to be a movie star, You know, many years ago. Right. And you had your your portfolio of all your pictures and everything's like that. 00;42;01;10 - 00;42;15;26 You got to have pictures, right? You got to be a movie star. You want to be a model. You got to have pictures, kind have a portfolio. So you want to be an eye, you want to be in security, you want to be in, you know, technical create your portfolio, make it available publicly, and then point people at it. 00;42;15;28 - 00;42;35;02 Now, I have to say, you're bringing up things that I'm wondering if you're trolling me and because you're in security, are you are you doing is there some subversion here that you're actually finding things out about me and you're finding in the depths of the dark web? I'm understand. Anyway, and we're back. So. Yes. Got it. So it tracks. 00;42;35;02 - 00;42;52;13 I mean, everything that you're saying, David, is it saying, you know, there's there's effort involved? Probably having a solid plan. Initial plan doesn't have to be 90% bulletproof, but you need to start with a plan that's going to help you where you are, get to the next step or to have a vision with Chris and see if there's a plan. 00;42;52;13 - 00;43;11;06 It's like I say, let's go to military, right? What's the target? Who is the target? What is the target? Then you build the plan to take out that target. Right? Fair point. And you said that in the past. I mean, you're consistent in that. You need to understand where you want to go, but also anticipate that things will things will change along the way. 00;43;11;11 - 00;43;28;03 And you were a good example of that, right? So in ten years, your plan shifted a little bit, wasn't entirely off base. It was just, you know, the azimuth just veered off from the original target in this case. So, you know, but be gentle on yourself as that occurs. Right? I mean, I think this is one of the things that's important for us to know that. 00;43;28;03 - 00;43;50;25 Nobody's harder on us than ourselves, I would hope. Right. Because that keeps us dedicated and disciplined. Right. And, you know, the motivation is you. It's not something external influence, you know, that's inspiring. It's not motivation, things like that. I think it's just a matter of be true to who you want to be. Right. Understand who that is, how you envision yourself, you know, a year, two years, five years, ten years from now, what do you want to do? 00;43;50;25 - 00;44;15;21 When do you want to retire? When do you want to separate from the workforce and live your best life in the ways that you imagine? Whatever it is matters less, but have that trajectory lined out with a variation, an understanding of a variation of degrees that will occur over time and be okay with it. Give yourself permission to be okay with change and then, you know, read the transcript in the know how it can be used. 00;44;15;21 - 00;44;54;10 Just to use myself as the example of what change includes. Any, any last comments? David And that's kind of I think the is I think always always expect the unexpected, right? You know, and things like that. It's like, you know, is, is we get into rhythm, we get happy with the way things are going, making progress. But then always be aware that hey, the unexpected, right Could be a minute from now, a week from now, a year from now, always being aware, being always self-conscious and is part of that I think is we've talked about before is like be self-critical, always asking, you know, feedback from others or your peers, your mentors, like where am 00;44;54;10 - 00;45;08;27 I going to stumble? Where am I about to fail? What am I missing? If you don't ask that, you know you're going to get blindsided every time. Yes, And that's a great point, too, because you've mentioned that before. You know, feedback having you're in your circle, somebody that's willing to give you the hard feedback that should stay. Right. 00;45;08;29 - 00;45;27;16 And that's the best quote that I've heard from you. Top, top three at least. Probably number two of the reality. You know it. You want to hear you want to hear those hard realities from others to help you get better. So thank you, David. And if anybody has any further cause I know we're just scraping the surface on this, I hope it was helpful for everybody. 00;45;27;16 - 00;45;47;17 But, you know, if you're if you want to shift careers or enter the workforce in the in the security space or A.I. or whatever, David, is it okay if people reach out and if so, how? Absolutely. You can find us on LinkedIn, you know, things like that. Always happy answer. I answer everybody that's always looking for some advice or connections, things like that. 00;45;47;19 - 00;46;06;26 I can't take on mentees at this point, but at the same time I always ask questions are answer questions, and in return I'll say, Hey, please listen to our podcast and kind of spread the word. Yes, please. All right, everyone, keep moving forward. Let's roll.…

MAVEN

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Change: Shaping Context to Move Forward with Dr. Justin Smith 49:27

1 year тому49:27

49:27

We're excited to have Dr. Smith join us to share his thoughts surrounding change and how we respond to external and internal factors. We cover considerations of how we can prepare and where we may learn to make minor adjustments to how we perceive external environmental situations by better understanding context. This is one of our more exciting episodes where we're provided the opportunity to discover more about, not only ourselves but also how we may consider ways to serve and support others through change. A Dr. Smith quote from the conversation: "Bring it every day". We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So, let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinsmithphd/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrissspencer/ X: mrdbcross -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript: 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;28;18 You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight Employees, Partners, organization fans and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And today's episode, I'm joined by our co-host David Kross, senior vice president and SAS chief Information security officer within Oracle. 00;00;28;24 - 00;00;51;16 And today we have a special guest, Dr. Justin Smith, neuroscientist, CTO and passionate advocate for data analytics and all things stress. We're excited to have Dr. Smith join us today to share his thoughts surrounding change and how we respond to external and internal factors. We cover considerations of how we can prepare and where we may learn to make minor adjustments to how we perceive external environmental situations by better understanding context. 00;00;51;16 - 00;01;11;17 This is one of our more exciting episodes where we're provided the opportunity to discover more about not only ourselves, but also how we may consider ways to serve and support others through change. A Dr. Smith quote from the conversation Bring it every day we have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. 00;01;11;18 - 00;01;25;23 Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Doctor Smith's and David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. 00;01;25;26 - 00;01;46;09 MrdbCross How is it going, sir? Chris It's great. I'm excited that we're now getting more guests on our podcast because we're going to get up there. You know, we're going to have more listeners than the All in podcast, so just stay tuned for 2020 for everyone. There you go. Today we have a special guest with us, Dr. Justin Smith, and he'll introduce himself and his brief background. 00;01;46;09 - 00;02;04;08 But you know, what we're talking about today is how to how to maneuver and navigate through change. Dr. Smith Absolutely. Hello. Thank you very much for having me. My name is Justin Smith, and my background is in neuroscience. That's what my Ph.D. is in. And the reason why people I jokingly say I won't make my brothers call me Dr. Bias. 00;02;04;08 - 00;02;35;00 Just you can call me Justin, but my Ph.D. is in neuroscience specifically and stress and decision making. And I get asked or brought in to help work with groups that groups or individuals. Interesting. An interest in enhancing their decision making under extreme stress, but also understanding how the brain works under dynamic circumstances. And I think that's very applicable to what we're talking about today, this idea of change and transition and kind of what's happening specifically to you as individuals, but also to the groups that you're part of. 00;02;35;03 - 00;02;58;09 Well, it's pretty exciting, Dr. Smith, that really having you, because not many people know is that actually about 12 plus years ago, I actually had a brain aneurysm. Right? It ruptured. You know, I had the hemorrhagic stroke and my brain needed to change under a lot of stress and things like that. It's amazing to, you know, to talk to someone and how people can go through these things and how the brain can change and how people can change. 00;02;58;09 - 00;03;19;15 When you're under stress, our life and life changes. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a an incredible story. I'm happy to see just my brief interaction already that you've done a fantastic recovery. Those are very can be very life altering events. One of the one of the things I'd like to talk about, it's kind of bring it in for us today, kind of jump jump the agenda a little bit. 00;03;19;15 - 00;03;42;29 But the idea of neuroplasticity. Right. And so in your case specifically, David, the idea of how does our brain repair itself when it's going through or has experienced a specific injury. Right. So an aneurysm is a very specific injury. And the mechanisms that happen on both these structural meaning like parts of your brain change and able to grow and adapt, we call that neuroplasticity. 00;03;42;29 - 00;04;21;29 But also how do you learn new things or go through and your brain changes? And essentially the idea of memory is being formed, but also the plasticity of how do you become better at something through experience? And the mechanism is essentially very similar. There's a couple of nuances that are differentiated, but what's fascinating is that our brains have this incredible ability that we knew about for about 200 years ago or so, but then we've really been able to show in the last 30 to 50 years that our brains can actually change and adapt and grow to appreciate experiences and also, you know, overcome injuries that happened to us. 00;04;21;29 - 00;04;43;06 And so I think that's something where when you're going through or you perceive that you may be going into a time of transition and or change, how do you prepare yourself for that? Right? How do you build in those building blocks to know I'm going to have something that's going to be pretty dynamic or stressful, potentially occurring, even just going home to see friends and family for the holidays all the way to a major life event. 00;04;43;09 - 00;05;01;15 How do you prepare and change and adapt yourself so that you can respond as best as possible? That's always that's always a fantastic conversation. So thanks for that and let's jump in right to it. I mean, that's that's what we're here to do, you know, and this is just to remind anybody, this is this is an idea based off of some things that David. 00;05;01;15 - 00;05;42;25 Mr.. Mr.. CROSS So you got me ready with the formalities. I was thinking about. Dr. SMITH. It's columns that Tom just in the idea of, of being able to understand when we're about to enter something right in a situation, a conversation. David you and I have been talking about these in the series of conversations on previous podcasts. You know, when we're recognizing that something is about to occur, how do we how are we going to create the awareness for us to know what we're going to need to do to prepare for this appropriately so we can be informed enough, but also understand our limitation, you know, because we don't know what we don't know, but 00;05;42;25 - 00;06;03;06 we have to be able to recognize that we need to be prepared for the things that we don't know. So when we do fail, we can respond to that accordingly or appropriately to where we don't stop. We've got to keep moving. So just then, if you wouldn't mind maybe taking it from that to say, how do we understand that something's about to occur? 00;06;03;09 - 00;06;20;09 Yeah, absolutely. David, you have one thing you want to add before he jumped in. Well, yeah, I think that I was going to ask maybe another part of that question to you. Is that a big part of it I used to think about is like you is all about having a vision, right. And a plan. Right. And then that's what drives your brain to get there, right? 00;06;20;15 - 00;06;36;16 Or am I being naive? You know, obviously like last podcast talk about, you know, being useful and the tools and saying, hey, you have a vision and a plan and that's what drives you. Is that being too simplistic or is that part of the whole story? No, I think that's very much a part of the whole story, right? 00;06;36;17 - 00;06;59;06 We are, as a species goal driven and plan oriented, and I like to use evolutionary examples right? When you're going to go out and gather food, whether it's berries or you're going to procure meat from some something, some animal, right. Usually go with a plan. You know, I tend to wander around aimlessly and waste expenditure and calories on just randomly going to see if I can find a new blueberry patch. 00;06;59;08 - 00;07;16;20 You were going to specifically say, I know there's blue blueberry patches here, here and here. And because our species, we're thinkers as well, right? Not just going to go to a blueberry patch and gather blueberries. We're going to hunt our way there. We're going to hunt anyway back right here and optimize when I have a plan to go through and say, you know, what is it we want to do? 00;07;16;21 - 00;07;39;01 What are the goals we'd like to accomplish today, even if it feels informal? Right. Those still are kind of structured. Portions of our day are weeks or months and I would argue our years are kind of the overall arc of our life as well. But I think it's not too simplistic to say how do you create a plan and set goals for yourself and a group to understand, okay, this is what the this is what we're shooting for, right? 00;07;39;01 - 00;07;57;27 And kind of breaking it down in business. We do this a lot. We here's the here's the house on the Hill we're trying to build. How do we get there? How do we build these smaller building blocks that are accomplishable and spur planning and all that kind of stuff, Right. To to hunker down and tweak instruments or our instruments or whatever it is that you're doing that cousins causes effort or takes effort to do. 00;07;58;00 - 00;08;30;03 But having a plan is very much how our brains are organized structurally as well. I would argue, to be able to optimize, be able to accomplish those things for the basic level, for survival. Right. We most of us have those needs. Metaphor Listeners podcast. So how do you plan to do it for organizational advancement? So in part of that planning, because you're talking about these things too, where if you've never done it before, it's easy to say, you know, here's what I think I need to do, and then you stop there and then you learn, right? 00;08;30;03 - 00;08;54;05 So this is some of that developmental process that you mentioned earlier about the growth and how that becomes a valuable. So how much is this kind of a qualitative quantitative thing about how much effort do you think you need to go into typical situations in life stages and and, you know, maybe jobs or performance or relationships or even the climate like seasons, right? 00;08;54;05 - 00;09;11;04 So we're going from summer to fall, fall or winter, and then what occurs inside those seasons. Yeah. And so this is where I would say you start to see a spectrum occur, right? Individuals who do very little to no preparation just kind of go with the way to the flow, all the way to individuals who are preparing for seasons and or events at that. 00;09;11;04 - 00;09;27;07 Really, I'll just use the word elite and or extreme event, right? Where they going to try and control as much, if not everything that they can. And so depending on where you feel like it's the most appropriate place for yourself to fall, and this is where you can really start to see it in the workplace or even just in human performance. 00;09;27;09 - 00;09;44;06 Individuals who prepare more perform better. It's a pretty clear cut correlation. It's not, wow, they're really good at that. They're good at that because they practiced it for years and years and years of their speaking where there's a certain skill worth. You're an athlete, you know, if you're leading a team meeting, you know, that's not just thing you happen into. 00;09;44;06 - 00;10;19;15 Those are those are finance skills that you're able to practice and build upon. And so for the transitions, right, is understanding what are the potential transitions you're going to experience. How do you figure out those before they occur? Right. And then if you're if you're a planner who thinks diligently, right, the military has a bunch of acronyms for this as well, but you have your primary, secondary and tertiary plan knowing that they're all three going to be a little bit different in the end because dynamics and things change in the world evolves around us constantly, but at least have some structure to hold on to as you're going through this dynamic situation. 00;10;19;15 - 00;10;39;27 And that's the part where setting yourself up for success is really key, right? And so, again, to use the evolutionary example, 10,000 years ago, you know, we were looking at when winter is coming, seasons are changing. You got to start storing food, storing things so you can make them this long winter because things are growing, peaches gotten harvest, blueberries, got to save them. 00;10;40;00 - 00;10;57;18 You know, Dr. Smith, this really brings, you know, another question to my mind, and since you are the expert here is, you know, there's always left brain and right brain, and I can't remember which one's which, but right brain is more structured, methodical, and the other side is is more creative, artistic. Right. And we talk about visions in planning structure. 00;10;57;18 - 00;11;24;11 Does it matter if a person's left brain focused or right brain focused, or am I just making up a crazy thought? No, no, I think so. This is the hard part. From the neuroscience perspective. We view bilaterally like the split in your brain as being essentially a redundant system, right? There is there is specialization, right? So your right hands control the left hand, push your brain, you know, your eyeballs, cross your optic nerve, goes back and crosses it, gets back to your occipital lobe in the back of your brain. 00;11;24;13 - 00;11;44;21 So there there is a duality or there is a bifurcation right between the two lobes. Your brain. But how it's organized in terms of people being right brain and left brain, I this is my personal opinion. I think it's far oversimplistic, right? Because all of your brain is working more or less constantly all the time. And we do see individuals that are more creative, right? 00;11;44;24 - 00;12;06;09 But it's not creative because one side the brain's functioning at a higher percentage or higher perspective and some people are more analytical or more, you know, logic based, you know, less we can say less creative, right? Less creative. In the same way they're not able to paint and draw pictures readily. But that just might be because they're using different forces of brain that are more optimized to how things are running for them intuitively, or we call it in neuroscience. 00;12;06;09 - 00;12;24;13 It's called the default mode network, right? So essentially it's that what's the Hummer? What's the idol of your brain when you're at rest and then you're able to bring it up to say, I have a cognitive task. Can you take care of I have this big thing I need to prepare for. How do I prepare resources? How do I plan how to prepare myself physically, mentally, you know, all those kind of things. 00;12;24;13 - 00;12;43;08 And that process takes your whole brain, like all the parts of your brain from your cortex, all the way down to your limbic system. The emotional, you know, emotional portion of your brain. And so when it gets to the idea of left brain versus right brain, I it's just it's too simplistic for me. This what I like to say. 00;12;43;10 - 00;13;01;29 Well, that's great to hear. Certainly I can say from my experience when I had my ears and my my speech center, which was on my left, left behind my left eye. Yes. Will be damaged. Right. I'm still paranoid today that I don't speak properly, but it is amazing of how my brain evolved, you know, adjusted so quickly to say, well, I need to still speak. 00;13;01;29 - 00;13;24;16 And I actually I all the language just started coming back and things like over time. And that means I can adapt and I think that's maybe our our our conversation today. How do you adapt right? How can you get through stress, stress or a change or a challenge? Yeah, absolutely. And so using your example is really, really illustrative for us today, because that is exactly neuroplasticity, right? 00;13;24;16 - 00;13;53;29 You have a large damage to the course of your brain is responsible for a very specific process. And this is what do I do this often? I'm still I get excited and I'm like, this is incredible. You're brain to have a damaged that's just that big area yet parts that were closer near it are able to pick up some of that functionality right and you're able to train and bring in and your body kind of helps to move those resources that your neurons can connect again, to say this is a core functionality of existence for us, it's speech, right? 00;13;53;29 - 00;14;11;15 Understanding and processing and be able to speak language. We have to figure this out. And so you practice it, right? You go to these therapies, you do all these things that are that are hard and take effort, but your brain is able to kind of overcome that deficiency or that that injury that I experienced. Right. And that's that's phenomenal. 00;14;11;15 - 00;14;25;24 And so where that leads us for the transitions and the change portion is knowing that there might be a change coming up and, you know, it's going to be stressful. What do you do to prepare? Right? So number one is you figure out what that area might be, right? So let's just say it's a big transition for your family. 00;14;25;24 - 00;14;42;06 You're moving across the country, right? We have this cool thing called the Internet. You're able to do a bunch of background research and say, where's I'm going? Where do I want to live? Kind of paint that picture for yourself. Right. The other part, too, is you're able to ideally if you're moving, is let's use that as the example, right? 00;14;42;08 - 00;14;59;04 Hopefully able to save some money to say, I'm going to make an advanced trip out there and this goes in that person that's super logical and can do a bunch of planning, right. And then make an advance about there and not tell your whole family, send one person, your family, maybe, hopefully the person that's really interested in deciding what parts of town you want to live in or what you want to have as your living situation. 00;14;59;06 - 00;15;28;16 You will do a little reconnaissance of that area to say this is a this looks like a great place on the Internet and on a map. Then you get there and it's an area that's under heavy construction. And they're not there's no end in sight. That's not a place you want to bring yourself or your family. But what you're able to do during that process, and this is where even if you don't have to physically go somewhere to practice, this is the key part, the practice of thinking about what is it you can do to prepare for these big transitions are going to go through, helps to restructure and organize your brain, if that makes 00;15;28;16 - 00;15;44;14 sense. Right? So it's doing those kind of thought experiments is thought exercise and even going through and asking yourself and thinking about where would I like to live? Sounds super easy. Intuitive, right? I don't care. Apartment, condo, house, it's fine, doesn't matter. But then it's way more nuanced that do I want to buy water? You want to buy a golf course? 00;15;44;14 - 00;16;05;09 Do I live by the road, the airport, and going through and say, okay, what are those options? And laying them out for yourselves that your prefrontal cortex, your executive decision making process in your brain can really start to step in to say, I know that we as a unit, a family unit or use individual really appreciate I'm happiest, healthiest when I have access to a green belt to ride my bike and go for runs. 00;16;05;09 - 00;16;34;21 Right. Or I like to play golf every day. So if I can move in or out a golf course, they have accessibility to, you know, these are things to start to practice in the exercises. Again, it doesn't sound like exercise. We talk about physical exercise and these those mental exercises to be able to prepare for these types of change is setting yourself up for success so that if you have to make that big transition and most people say, wow, you had you found out in 30 days, you moving across the country, your response if you thought about it ahead of time because you had an inkling that might be happening is yeah, but I already 00;16;34;21 - 00;17;05;25 have a really good idea of what I'm looking for and I've got a list of places I can contact. And I have a realtor that I have kind of on standby, right? Those are things that, again, seem like they're completely tangential to the idea of like, how do you prepare for big transitions? But it's the idea of preparing yourself and your brain to practice and exercise this cognitive thinking that you're able to do so that when you have to do it and this goes down to really specific situations as to as well, you're able to kind of rely on those experiences and those resources because they're readily available and you've trained them up, if that 00;17;05;25 - 00;17;29;11 makes sense. If I'm if well, if I'm transitioning right to our military family, you're transitioning right? You have a network of people to where anybody that you're asking if even if you overhear it, but if you're intentional on trying to find out and pursue investigate, like you just said about, you know, connaissance. Right. You're trying to figure out ahead of time whether or not this is something for you, it's safe to say. 00;17;29;11 - 00;17;50;28 Then you have to identify and be as accurate as possible by thinking critically about what's important to you and understand the levels of importance. So to prioritize these things. Yeah. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And that's something where, again, going back to our spectrum of laissez faire people, they don't they go with the wind all the way to individuals who are, you know, really large, you know, meticulous planners. 00;17;51;00 - 00;18;06;09 Understanding where you fall on that spectrum is key. But also it takes resources to think what makes me happy and healthy. Right? And it's easy to say I'm a go with the flow kind of person, but all of a sudden you find yourself not in the place that you're you recognize. After six months, you're not very happy or healthy. 00;18;06;09 - 00;18;36;12 And why is that? Is that things that you can change in your environment is that the career path? Is it the new job you took within the organization that you thought would you be really good at? Turns out it's really hard. It's not a good fit for you, right? How do you how do you make sure that you're able to stay self-aware, which again, it sounds easy to say it's a skill to practice that then when you go through to these major large changes and transitions really helps you to say, I know that I'm very good and comfortable when I get to these situations, but I need to practice these other types of situations, right? 00;18;36;12 - 00;18;53;27 And that's where the business side comes in to us. If you know, you have to give a talk to 30 people and you're comfortable doing that, what happens is 30 people that are three levels above you. How do you practice for that? How do you think about what's that audience going to want to hear that's different than talking to 33 individuals that are your peers, right? 00;18;53;27 - 00;19;13;12 And so, again, transitions change that planning ahead of time is really key and critical. And again, it's a skill to practice because it's like golf. You never win golf. You play it and get better, hopefully, but at some point you're like, okay, I'm still practicing, still getting better, I'm still hopefully enjoying it. But you never you never win. 00;19;13;13 - 00;19;28;17 You know, you kind of continually practice it. I think that's kind of just like the we always talk about lots of books and I say, Well, what's the best book? When you think about presenting? I say, Well, go get the book on the presentation. Secrets of Steve Jobs. Right. And how does Steve Jobs get really good at presenting? 00;19;28;24 - 00;19;55;02 Because he practice, practice, practice, practice, practice straight. And I and I think that's what it's all about. Whenever you need to do something and be successful at it. Practice, practice, practice. Chris What's your favorite book? Isn't that the Malcolm Gladwell saying 10000 Hours? Yeah, it's repeatedly it's the outliers because it does talk about very specific things. That's relative to not only time in a place to where it just so happens to be that it was convenient, right? 00;19;55;02 - 00;20;18;28 If you're in the right place at the right time, then you just your opportunity. And then there's the ones that actually put in the effort, put in the reps, develop that skill set based off of repetition and things like that, which Dr. Smith, you've talked about in the past, how important repetitions are and then the outcomes of those acts and how you're going to now develop the awareness to know what you can do better and what you shouldn't repeat? 00;20;19;00 - 00;20;34;27 Yeah, absolutely. And that's that feedback loop in training, right? So if you're really diligent about your training, you want to have a near immediate or real time feedback loop of did that work or did it not work? You know, we do it oftentimes we're we'll send a survey after we have, you know, a big all hands meeting. What did you hear? 00;20;34;27 - 00;21;01;06 What did you like? What could we change for next time? You know, leaders want to know what what worked, what didn't, how we adjusted for the future. And that's, again, a skill you can practice or think about often. It's easy to say it's hard to do, right. I think that's that's pretty gets down to in practicing takes effort and cognitive resources which are finite and so making sure you're able to prepare yourself as best as possible to leverage those resources appropriately is key. 00;21;01;06 - 00;21;22;22 And that's one of the other points I really enjoy making. I think it's super important. It sounds again, tangential, but it's extremely valid and is really important. And that's the idea of exercise, physical exercise, specifically voluntary exercise. Right? And so whatever your athletic ability is, challenge yourself. If you want to go for a walk for 30 minutes every hour of the day, Right, Do that. 00;21;22;23 - 00;21;40;10 That's your exercise. The big thing I have to say is making sure you're getting your heart rate elevated, your break a little bit of a sweat like that's that you're physiologically moving your body in in a meaningful way. You know, you don't run an ultramarathon or do 100 K like that. Sometimes it's not good. And those have certain effects on your body that aren't always great. 00;21;40;10 - 00;22;10;18 But the reason why exercise is so potent and powerful, this is a probably good transmission to the idea of stress is our bodies are really good at mitigating stress when we have access to free exercise or we're able to move our bodies. Right. So there's two components that. One is the physiology. Your body gets better at moving things around through it, through your blood system, through endocrine system, through, you know, the lymphatic system, the parts that move things through your body when you're when you appropriately exercise or use that system with intention, especially, it's voluntary. 00;22;10;18 - 00;22;28;23 That's the key part, is it gets better doing it right. It's kind of like if you haven't done a certain exercise a long time, you're like, I'm going to go out and lift weights. That first two or three weeks back is really hard because your body is like your brain says, I know how to do is a dumbbell curl like it is all day long and your muscles are freaking out because they haven't done it in such a long time. 00;22;28;23 - 00;22;48;03 Your bone structure may have changed. You know, you may have had an injury or coming back from ulcers. This different makes an impact. And so starting where you are is key. Building up your physiologist, you have that physiological response. But also this is the part to where I think it was probably five or six years ago. Now they're finally able to get a real time image of the brain while you're breathing, right? 00;22;48;03 - 00;23;03;20 So you can see inside the skull and watch the brain. So all of our textbooks, until about ten years ago had the brain is this just static thing that stuck inside your skull? Well, it turns out when they did a race, they were all kind of played as a movie. Our brain moves as we breathe with our heart rate as well. 00;23;03;20 - 00;23;24;13 Right. It's this incredible like, my gosh, this thing is actually not just this static, you know, mushy gray matter. White men are stuck in a box. It's moving and it's moving with your breath, with your respirations, your situation system, all these things change it. And so what happens is the more you're able to build up the appropriate level of physiology for you, for yourself, right. 00;23;24;16 - 00;23;43;27 You're able to not only think better and more clearly because you're kind of resources will be able to be moving around much faster. You're able to physiologically have a response. It's appropriate to a certain stressor. And that's the key thing, right? So if you're feeling completely unprepared and overwhelmed, you have to stop and say, what is it that's overwhelming me? 00;23;43;29 - 00;24;06;04 And after time, that's a very difficult question to ask yourself as well, because it could be personal, it could be professional, it could be systems that are under your control, somewhat out of your control. Right. But be able to stop and say, okay, what's what's bugging me, What's stress me right now, How can I deal with that? And the more you're able to leverage voluntary exercise in your life, the better you will be at doing that. 00;24;06;06 - 00;24;34;22 You know, Dr. Smith, that I can't agree 100% more certainly to those things is that certainly whenever I'm stressed for the work life, whatever, I go for a run. Right? And it's amazing of how much just a5k run. I'm not as hard core and you know, Chris and his his 50 K, you know, kind of sprints and things like that but my little five K running boy, it's amazing of like how that can just reset everything, reset your brain, reset your body like okay, I'm now able to, you know, take on things and also the element is he made his luck I don't know. 00;24;34;24 - 00;24;53;25 But literally one week before I had my brain aneurysm, I ran my first half marathon race. And in some ways, I believe to this day is that my body, my mind was conditioned for stress, you know, in a race of that type. And that's maybe one of the reasons I survived, is because of that. But I could be wrong. 00;24;53;27 - 00;25;20;14 I was not a medical doctor to send it very clearly. But I will say you were in a far better position for recovery because you prepared for that ten K then had you been sitting on the couch and been completely sessile or just not moving around for two or three years before that injury happened? Right. And that's where in health care we see this massive split of individuals that have what seem like near miraculous recoveries, but turns out like, no, that person casualty's a triathlete as well. 00;25;20;16 - 00;25;39;27 It's like you. Their body is ready to respond to stressors that may come into it, whether it's injury, internal or external, whatever it may be, versus, you know, people that are let's just say, not as conditioned to have those types of responses because what we see or what we think about, especially especially with exercise, is, a person's weight's going up or down, right? 00;25;39;27 - 00;25;58;14 You look at the overall physical structure, what we don't think about is what they do internally is your blood pressure. How is your heart looking out? What's the rate of oxygen return from your lungs all in that just before you even get into the brain chemistry, Right. It's all affected. And exercise is an extremely powerful tool. And again, using the evolutionary examples, right. 00;25;58;14 - 00;26;25;13 We weren't meant to sit behind computers for 8 to 10 hours a day, like we're supposed to be out walking around doing stuff, thinking and talking, interacting with our peers and being social as well. But moving is a big part of our existence and it should be. So I think that's part of it too. Where I get to work with certain groups is the idea of letting it and letting everyone know it's okay to take 30 minutes to go outside and do a walk like that will your productivity will increase like we've seen it over and over again. 00;26;25;15 - 00;26;45;28 Your response to stress will become better for sure if you have even just a small amount of movement in your day. And I think that's where we start to see that on the other side, the negative side of chronic health conditions of people that aren't moving around very much. So it's it's again easy to say, hard to do, but building it into your day and planning for it can be very key. 00;26;46;00 - 00;27;14;04 And that can it goes the idea of stretching or having those large changes, that preparation, that anticipation for those big changes, they come up. Yeah. So part of the part of the plan and I think this is something that's commonly omitted from the plan is self care. Right? And so this this is along the lines of, you know, interestingly, when I'm trying to do something to be better at it, you know, I'm thinking about the external factors and how I'm looking ahead externally, meaning out of out of self, right? 00;27;14;04 - 00;27;33;12 I'm saying, well, if I need to go to the store, if I need to, you know, I want to work towards a degree or a certificate or something to that element, there isn't a lot of these things that I'm adding the value or incorporating the value of the physical element that that's necessary for me to function, hydration, nutrition, rest, I mean, all of those factors. 00;27;33;12 - 00;27;52;02 So can we kind of just touch on some of those things because your perspective on how how the brain is what it is and you just started to explain it, but how it needs the nutritional components to be able to optimize its function and things like that. How does how do all of these things connect? Yeah, so that's one that's a really big question. 00;27;52;04 - 00;28;09;17 But to kind of take it in smaller bites and chunks, right? So how does it all connect? One of the ways that I like to kind of describe this to think about it is the idea of context. And so when I say context, I mean in two different ways. I mean the external context to you, the physical environment that you're in, your surroundings around you, right? 00;28;09;17 - 00;28;27;00 So like literally the room that you're in or the space that you're occupying external context, and then also your internal context, what's happening inside your body, inside your brain. This is my favorite joke with the whole scientists is like, we can't point to a thought like we're told about your mind, Like we don't know where the mind or you can't put your mind. 00;28;27;00 - 00;28;52;28 We think it's in your head, right? But our our neurochemistry, our physiology inside our body is new. What's happening can be your considering talk about is your internal context. Those two things are related. They're interconnected completely right, because your external environment influences your internal environment. But what I like to say, and this is why I think is fun, is as humans we have this really unique ability and that is to think. 00;28;53;01 - 00;29;11;27 And when you can have an experience that's external. So an external context is a stressful situation. You have the ability to say, I'm going to put this as best as I can, right? And so I'll use my self as an example. If I get stuck at a dinner party or some sort of gathering and it is just a really dry conversation or something's happening, right? 00;29;12;04 - 00;29;25;06 And I don't want to be the person who's going to dominate the room, because sometimes I think that's fun to do as well. But sometimes it's not. It's the idea of sitting back and saying, How can I make this more enjoyable for others? How can we and we call it steering the conversation. How do you steer this conversation? 00;29;25;06 - 00;29;58;22 So it picks back up again? How do I help control these external contexts? Because in my brain, my internal context is like, this is boring. Like I don't want to be here anymore. What's going on right? And so specifically to do that and usually I talk about this more in more applied circumstances in terms of individuals that go into extreme stress environments, meaning life or death situations, but for us that aren't usually facing those situations on a day to day basis, hopefully the idea of how do you take care of or set yourself up for success in the best way possible, right? 00;29;58;22 - 00;30;19;18 So exercise is very type of exercise. Next to it is nutrition, hydration, Right. And so making sure you're meeting your body's needs for what you're asking you to do and this is another fun fact I really enjoy talking about is when you and Chris, you should know the answer because you heard this one before, I think. But for individuals that are playing in a elite grandmaster level chess tournament. 00;30;19;20 - 00;30;38;10 Right. How many calories do you think their body or their brain or their body overall is burning in a day? Like what would you say if you had to guess? David Wow, I'm stuck with that. I don't I don't have a good guess on this one, actually. Okay. Would you guess it'd be low because they're just sitting there and they're just playing chess all day? 00;30;38;12 - 00;31;01;01 No, I don't think so. I think that that is hard to say. It doesn't make sense. But now that sounds like I'm being comedic. Doesn't right now. It's all good. So what's amazing, right, is when you watch somebody play at the grandmaster level, these really intense chess tournaments, what we see externally from the external environment is they're sitting there and they're staring at a board with pieces on it. 00;31;01;01 - 00;31;22;07 Right. But what's happening to them internally, their internal context, their brain is firing and they're thinking ten, 20, 50 moves ahead, They're playing what's happening, what they think the strategy of their opponents going to be. They are literally thinking at the most cognitively resource intense level possible for hours on end. This isn't like a 30 minute speech chess game. 00;31;22;07 - 00;31;38;28 Like these people play games over and over again the other day. So it's fascinating is the number of changes a little bit, but you can think about in terms of it's a lot, right? So the idea is it's either eight, it's up to 8 to 12000 calories a day, which when you sit there and think you're like, holy cow, that's day. 00;31;39;02 - 00;31;58;02 So, Michael Phelps is swimming in the Olympics. He was eating 10,000 calories a day, right, because he was in the water training and racing and to feed his fuel's body for the physical exertion. But what's amazing is those grandmasters in chess, they're literally thinking their way through their caloric resources to their body because they're thinking so hard, they're playing these games. 00;31;58;04 - 00;32;13;28 And so that's the idea of what nutrition do you need? And this is where I get to have fun. Another group specifically. But knowing that you're getting ready to go do something, it's going to be extremely stressful. How do you set yourself up for success? And our brains run on glucose and oxygen. It's kind of the way you can think of it, right? 00;32;13;28 - 00;32;31;01 So simple the simple sugar glucose and need to be able to breathe, right? So before you go and you think it's stressful, especially if you know it's an event that's coming up, I usually don't have any with my desk here. I usually keep the organic gummy bears like the kids Gummy bears, right. That are just really just you know, it's like honey, Honey is a great example. 00;32;31;01 - 00;32;49;02 Those honey shots for athletes and they take without running, do laundry and stuff, having glucose on demand that you can boost yourself up, help special blood sugar. It's all the physiology kind of comes together, but setting your brain up for success to say, Hey, we're going to boost your brain, I'm going to boost you up with glucose so that you can have the resources you need for this. 00;32;49;04 - 00;33;07;07 Hopefully a medium to short duration, high level of cognitive load to deal with the transition or change you're going through, especially into an acute event. These are acute event examples. We talk about chronic events in a moment, but then also understanding this is another fun study was done probably 15, 20 years ago now. But it's not just any but individuals. 00;33;07;07 - 00;33;29;28 They measured respirations during an intense test. I think it was in the category also after medical school or law school to get into. And what they found was individuals that had the same resting actions, meaning they weren't holding their breath when they're taking a test, individuals that were able to have the same respirations throughout the whole test experience scored significantly better than individuals who are holding their breath during the testing process. 00;33;30;00 - 00;33;49;00 And again, it makes sense because when you do something, it's hard. What do you think about what happens? You go we ask you a question like how you think about that and you hold or pause your breath, right? And so recognizing what your breathwork is doing at the time, especially again, these are acute stressors, can help to actually improve your performance. 00;33;49;03 - 00;34;03;10 And so when you watch like Olympic athletes are great because they're on camera all the time before they're getting ready to go and do their event. When you watch them, a lot of times they're doing these deep inhalation breaths. They're helping to saturate their body with oxygen. They're thinking about it. I guarantee you they've had a snack for the last hour. 00;34;03;12 - 00;34;25;28 Right. All these sort of subtle things that we do intuitively at elite athlete athletic levels. But to understand now the physiology, especially the neuroscience of why that works so well, that's what's really key. And so there's these really foundational building blocks of chronic stress. You know, make sure you have access to voluntary exercise, right? You'll make sure you're eating a healthy diet that's appropriate for the caloric intake and exertion that you're going to have. 00;34;26;01 - 00;34;41;28 So if you if you know, you're going to be biking 2 to 3 hours a day, get that smoothie in the afternoon. If you're not, you're not sitting through 6 hours of intense strategic meetings. Maybe you don't need the smoothie to have. You know, it's nice to have a dessert by Nita. And so I'm putting all those together I think is really kind of part of the key. 00;34;42;00 - 00;35;03;12 What makes so much sense now. Right. And it's elements of, hey, we got a hard presentation, you got hard work to do. It's your brain needs the calories. And let's come back to that. You know, the continuous runner theme that we have on our podcast is, you know, there's a running I've done a measurement myself and it makes sense now is that, hey, I'm running a5k, it's flat, it's straight, right? 00;35;03;12 - 00;35;18;14 I'd like to think I just get into a zone. I know some runners are going get mad at me, like you get into a zone. You're not thinking right. And I know exactly how much weight I'm going to burn off, but then I do a5k in a a mountain trail. Right now it doesn't. It's not because of hills. 00;35;18;14 - 00;35;49;29 It's like I have to think about every single step, every single move. Because if I make the wrong one, I'm going to fall over. And how much more energy you consume. And it's not from the physical energy. It's like the brainpower. I'm exhausted from your brain perspective, from that same five k distance. Yeah, Yeah. And what's really fun and what are the examples I love to hear, especially from runners, is once they start doing more of those mentally engaging runs, they say it's really hard to go and run a flat five k on pavement because you get you, you want to do it. 00;35;49;29 - 00;36;08;22 Your body says, let's go and try this right because it's fun and you're doing it voluntarily. I think that's the other part that's key, but it's it's engaging. Yeah. So then I think, Chris, we got to see you doing some hills, dude, and not just doing those trademark KS around the Redwood Lake. You know this guy, He's trying to get me into a what, a 25 minute ten. 00;36;08;23 - 00;36;32;14 Okay, so it's baby steps. So just to kind of get to where we are and summarize what we've taken, you've taken us through at this point. It's it's the planning, right? So becoming intimately familiar with what you're trying to do, it requires that you understand yourself better. And that comes through a true inventory of what you've achieved in the past. 00;36;32;14 - 00;37;01;13 And then, you know, somehow coming up to a methodology of categorizing things, of capable, not capable, want, don't want, you know, need, don't need things. However it works for you, you have to come up with some theory that is applicable to to what steps you're going to take to get in motion to move forward. And that's the preparing the, anticipating, you know, going through the experience, reassessing because the growth is going to now uncover some other patterns that you didn't know that you were going to benefit from. 00;37;01;13 - 00;37;31;24 And so you realize it. You know, even we're talking about nutrition, this little this little tweak and how your body's identifying stress and then acclimating to stress the recovery component, which is not often spoken about, you know, how you recover from these activities, from the physical component, the biological component, the mental component. You don't have to restore all of these things where I don't know that everybody's realizing that just sitting idle, the perception on the outside with the chess analogy is, you know, you're not really demonstrating physically anything outside. 00;37;31;24 - 00;37;51;14 Do people think that you're actually doing something, but internally you're expanding an enormous amount of energy to where it can be draining. You put it into word the context of what we're talking about. Again, military family, you know, the deployments, the idle time. There's still this thing that you're now putting your body through to assess, should I be doing something? 00;37;51;14 - 00;38;16;23 I should be doing more, maybe I shouldn't be doing this. And then the families being brought through those experiences on the same same context, the deployments, time away, time back, getting associated through the relationships and all that stuff. That's putting a weight on us to be able to understand what we need to do to prepare for that. But then it's the decision to get out of an environment that you've been in for an enormous amount of time, say five, ten, 15, 20 years. 00;38;16;26 - 00;38;40;19 You know, what are some of the things that you can do where, you know I'm thinking positive psychology, you know, things that you can reinforce through the self-talk of understanding a how to get through a moment to get unstuck or just make sure that you're not going to remain stagnant if that's how you feel. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think this is a really, again, key component, especially when you go through major life transitions, right? 00;38;40;27 - 00;38;59;27 Is one is again, I think I saw this 16 times today, but easy to say, hard to do. Number one is recognize that it's hard it's hard to do like this is going to be stressful. I think just accepting and recognizing that sounds easy, but it's so like we're really good at denying things. I mean, like, I can get through this. 00;38;59;27 - 00;39;13;15 I'm just going to brush in the rug, recognize it's hard because when you recognize that something is going to be hard or be difficult, you then recognize you have to put effort into it. Right. And so then once you know, you put effort into it, this is the part of having a really be and this is why our brains are cool. 00;39;13;21 - 00;39;33;11 We can take that into the context of a giant transition that they separate from. Military is a good example, right. And switch it. So it's not this it's not a negative event. You can look at it and frame it for yourself, Change the internal context you're experiencing into a positive or just this is a transition I'm going to be going through and making it as positive as possible. 00;39;33;13 - 00;39;50;29 Right? And so that kind of gets the idea of the positive psychology of how do you think about challenges. You're going to have to go through. And once you recognize that doesn't have to be a negative challenge, it starts to become fun because then you kind of start to gamified, where do I want to live? What do I want to do with a second career? 00;39;51;00 - 00;40;11;06 What do I want to do in my retirement? What what does getting back to being self aware? What does bring me joy and happiness? What makes me a better at being a partner to my in my significant other, to my kids, to my people in my life. And so I think that's again, one of those things that you kind of talk about or hear about this bajillion books written about it, right? 00;40;11;09 - 00;40;30;28 But it's the idea of changing an internal context that you perceive that you're telling a story that you're telling yourself, which is why our brains are different. Fantastic. Because I'll say the military is a good example because you see, you have to think it's really hard and difficult to do. But the more kind of selecting the groups you get to work with or you go into, you recognize you're surrounded by people that have chosen to be there. 00;40;31;06 - 00;40;58;03 They want to do those hard, dangerous, let's be honest, exciting tasks because it's not mundane. It's the trail run with the rocks with the side of the cliff exposed. You can have to run it through or around or find a bridge to go across that river. Right? These are challenging things that when you kind of set it into a positive framework, become challenges that you want to do and you want to accelerate out and accelerate and you want to accelerate your experience going into those so that you can come out of them as best as possible. 00;40;58;06 - 00;41;14;20 And so I think that's something where recognizing that you have the ability to say this is again the idea I'm not, I'm going to be okay. There today or I'm going have a good day today, right? If your days go and carry one piece, you got in a fender bender in the morning and your lunch spilled out on the floor. 00;41;14;22 - 00;41;32;23 I'm going to get there today. You know what that means? I could figure it out. I'm going to solve this problem, this car wreck. It sucks, but I can figure this out. I'm okay. That's one thing, right? It's about okay, I'm okay. This happens part of driving a vehicle on the roadway. Also, my lunch is malicious. Tash, I want you to tell us if you did, but you're like, okay, how am I going to solve this problem of finding my new lunch? 00;41;32;23 - 00;41;59;15 How I'm going to steer every source of calories to my brain by taking those things that could easily spiral to be very acute negative for an individual and saying, okay, this is a challenge I get to solve now, right? Just that that small, subtle flip from on what's happening to me to how can I influence the outcome. And that's where you start to see individuals that we call resilience to resign, individuals they are extremely good at telling themselves, I can solve this situation. 00;41;59;20 - 00;42;16;21 I don't know how yet, but I know I can solve it. Right? And so that's where those kind of core features that we see people that are really, really good at adapting to change, which we're all not very good at it, but people that are better than others, potentially, they're really good and. A lot of times they don't even realize they're doing it. 00;42;16;23 - 00;42;28;18 It's that I'm going to have a good day today. I'm going to an awesome day out. I can build in three things that I love to do today, right? As in this is we kind of get to the setting, the plan, we talk about the beginning, but setting up something that's fun to do in the middle part of the day. 00;42;28;22 - 00;42;43;16 You have it takes a minute your life and it's like filling up the joint through the end of the day, right? That's enjoyable. No takes. My friend can tell you that I'm having a great deal, a great day, as well as small, subtle things do not just influence yourself, but also influence others. I think that's the idea of kind of getting back to that. 00;42;43;16 - 00;43;08;20 How does it all come together? You know, that's not that's a four Ph.D. dissertation right there, but kind of recognizing that you can change your internal context and then you also have influence often your external context as well, even when it seems like it's outside of your control. I think that's kind of those things where the more we understand and think about it in those terms, the more able people are to find tools that work for them so they can mitigate the situations as best as possible. 00;43;08;23 - 00;43;30;19 Yeah, I agree. So the the idea that there's context, how you shape the context to understand how you can motivate yourself because you've probably at some point, if you've done this repeatedly, you've created a discipline where that means that you have the routine already set there. Isn't it an external factor to motivate you? It's just because, you know it needs to be done. 00;43;30;19 - 00;43;57;18 You've already acknowledged and accepted, which I think is some of the things that you know have been consistent. David And what you and I have been talking about, the one thing that I can't help not bring up is the value. So the value component, because if we're talking in our situations to where maybe there isn't something that's obvious about what you're needing to do to make sure that you're not being complacent, that you're prepared is to understand, are you in what you're doing right now? 00;43;57;18 - 00;44;17;25 Are you creating the value for others to leverage, to not you in a position to where you have to change or transition to? That could be a career, a job or a task, something to that effect. So I don't know. Do we dive into a little bit with the time we have left? I can give I can give a quick a quick sort response. 00;44;17;27 - 00;44;38;18 It won't take hopefully too long. But on the idea of creating a value, I had an amazing coach and I was playing at this football and it was a team sport and this coach came with so much passion and he played the collegiate level. So his techniques were off the charts like he was really good at all. These things needed to kind of build into a beginning athlete. 00;44;38;18 - 00;44;53;13 And we were playing high school football. But one of the major takeaways and he'd say this and every practice was bring something to the party, because if you're the fastest runner, bring your speed. If you have fast runner, but you have a lot of a lot of personality to share with the team, you're a great man. Bring that right. 00;44;53;13 - 00;45;12;13…

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Impact: Be a Force Multiplier 45:56

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