Night of the Living Dead (1990)

2 Guys And A Chainsaw - A Horror Movie Review Podcast

Вміст надано Todd Kuhns and Craig Higgins. Весь вміст подкастів, включаючи епізоди, графіку та описи подкастів, завантажується та надається безпосередньо компанією Todd Kuhns and Craig Higgins або його партнером по платформі подкастів. Якщо ви вважаєте, що хтось використовує ваш захищений авторським правом твір без вашого дозволу, ви можете виконати процедуру, описану тут https://uk.player.fm/legal.

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Our tribute episode to the late, great Tony Todd – actor extraordinaire, and an absolute gem every time he pops up in a horror movie. We covered Candyman already, so instead we’re hitting up the very first horror film to be graced with his deep voice, striking looks and undeniable charisma – the 1990 Tom Savini-directed remake of Romero’s Night of the Living Dead.

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Night of the Living Dead (1990)

Episode 416, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Craig. Tony Todd died recently.

Craig: I know. Isn’t that such a bummer and like it comes out of nowhere like what right he wasn’t even that old What do you I think he he was 69,70?

Todd: Yeah, I don’t know what too old is nowadays I think we’ve we’ve like talked about people who are about to turn 90 and we’ve been like, oh they were so young Yeah, I know.

I realize standards have changed but Yeah, 69 still feels a little too young, because my parents are still alive and they’re older than that, so that’s, that’s my judgment, frame of reference, I suppose. I think I was surprised he was even that old, because he, the man hasn’t aged, to look at him, he just has always been this striking, good looking guy, he’s been, he was working up to the very end, and he’s just been in everything, like his guy’s been all over the place.

Yeah. And, uh, I just expected to keep seeing him at places. So, uh, it really sucks.

Craig: Yeah, yeah, it’s a bummer. Obviously, I think his most well known role is Candyman, of course. But he has been in a bazillion things. Not just in film, but also on stage and in television, voice acting, video games. God,

Todd: that voice.

The

Craig: voice!

Todd: Yeah, Jesus, Jesus, that voice. I mean, it’s so recognizable to, you know, I mean, he’s got that it’s like James Earl Jones with an edge,

Craig: you know, it’s a silky bass voice. Yeah, it’s just a gift. And he also has a, Very distinct look when I heard that he passed away. Immediately I thought, we have to do something, like, but we’ve already done Candyman.

Like, that would, that would be the obvious thing to do. Of

Todd: course, yeah.

Craig: But I remembered that he had starred in The 1990 remake of Night of the Living Dead.

Clip: Hmm.

Craig: And what I remembered about that movie was that I liked it. So, I thought, let’s, let’s look at it. I didn’t realize that this was his first horror role.

I only learned that yesterday.

Todd: Yeah, that surprised me too. I was excited that you brought it up, because I have, this has been on my list for ages, like for decades, and I never did sit down and watch it, so I was really looking forward to seeing this remake. I grew up watching the, I mean, we did a whole episode in the original that was almost two hours long, I think.

I think we, I don’t remember why we did it or when we did it, I think it was on occasion of something. Maybe it was George Romero’s death, I don’t know. I don’t remember. Or maybe we’re just in the mood to do Night of the Living Dead. But, uh, in any case, we talked extensively about that movie. Because there’s a lot to talk about when it comes to the original.

And I grew up watching it. All the time. I mean, it was, because it was in the public domain, it was everywhere. You could catch it on TV, late at night, on On any given channel, at least once a month, probably. Especially around Halloween time, they’d ramp that up. You could go to the dollar store, you know, where they had VHS tapes.

It was usually one of the ten that they had to offer there. I was obsessed with the movie, I watched it a lot. I think it was, it was one of my very first experiences with a scene that was so shocking, that it really disturbed me for days. And that is, you know, towards the end. Oh, by the way, spoiler alert, if you haven’t seen Night of the Living Dead, we’re gonna be talking about Night Both of them.

But if you haven’t, you might, you’re probably coming at this podcast from a different angle than most. But, but what I’m saying is, um, that scene at the very end of the original where the girl ends up coming back to life and killing her parents. Yeah. That was, as a kid, that was utterly shocking to me. And so this movie came out of that fact that the original was immediately slipped into public domain.

I mean, Romero had issues, I think, with his distributors from the start. And then because of the stupid copyright laws of the time that said that in order for your film to be copyrighted, there has to be a literal copyright notice, or it doesn’t count. Which is kind of insane. When they did an update of the title screen, I believe it was, someone neglected to put the copyright notice in.

And so, uh, years later, this is kind of his attempt to make back some money on a movie that was wildly popular and made a lot of money for somebody, but not Romero and his investors.

Craig: Right, and he said that somebody was going to remake it. So, like he wanted me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody’s gonna remake it.

And, and he tried to involve people who were involved in the original production so that they would get a little bit, you know, like a little piece of it or whatever.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: It’s fascinating to me. The whole movie is fascinating to me. Obviously, I know, There are some behind the scenes. That are even our patrons don’t know.

Like we’re not giving them access to our texts or anything, but I texted you while I was watching this. And I was like, we made the right choice. Tony Todd is amazing in this. I think he’s so fantastic. He’s great. Obviously we are going to compare it. To the original and I’m so surprised honestly, I had seen this movie before but I didn’t remember much about it and I certainly hadn’t like researched it and and so Reading things about it.

I was surprised that it was kind of Panned when it came out. There was like a mediocre response to it. Yeah. That kind of surprises me, Todd, because I think that this is a great remake. It pays tribute to the original and does a lot of things that the original does, but it also does some new things. Like it’s, it’s still its own thing.

I was shocked to see, you know, your guy, Roger Ebert. He didn’t like it. No.

Todd: He

Craig: didn’t. He said, what was the point?

Todd: Yeah. I totally disagree. I don’t disagree with you. I think this movie is just fine. It is fine. It has some great acting in it. It actually has some not so good acting in it as well. The effects, I was kind of surprised at how little gore there was.

I mean, there was gore, there was some shocking things in there, but I expected to see a lot more with Tom Savini in control. Right, b Tom Savini, I guess, was Asked by Romero to come in and and yeah, you read what I read, right? Like he basically was they all decided that well in order to pay proper homage to the original We’re not gonna make it a big splatter fest because the original Wasn’t

Craig: but that’s not entirely true either because They filmed a lot more gory stuff that they ended up having to cut for rating.

Because when it went through the MPAA the first time, it was, got rated X.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Because of those gory scenes and they had to cut that down. Yeah, what do you believe? I don’t know,

Clip: actually.

Craig: Right. Right, actually the, the gory stuff is one of the scenes. Several things that makes it different and that has to do with budget, too I I don’t remember what the budget was for this one I know that I wrote it down somewhere, but

Todd: it was a four and a half million dollar budget I believe and it made about five and a half or six at the box office So it made money but just barely over its budget essentially by hollywood standards.

So, um, right Yeah, it’s still it’s a low budget production I think a four and a four and a half million dollar production is a low budget in 1990

Craig: Sure Heh, I just went on YouTube and searched Night of the Living Dead 1990 documentary. Oh, did you find one? There are several of them, and I watched one, I chose the one that was like 20 minutes, because I didn’t want to watch

Clip: hours of it.

Craig: But there’s actually even, I looked at something on YouTube, there is well over an hour of just, it seems like, Behind the scenes footage without commentary, it seems. It’s just like, like an hour of behind the scenes footage.

Clip: Hmm.

Craig: You see how they do the effects, and they talk about the effects and what they were trying to do, and it, it actually is.

Like, there’s blood splattering everywhere. Like, there’s, at some point, it’s zombies. They never call them zombies because they never call them zombies in these movies, but I’m going to call them zombies. This one zombie comes in, he’s very thin. You can kind of see his ribcage, but you can see his ribcage because he’s Shirtless.

Todd: Mmm, yeah.

Craig: And apparently that this was the first time that you had ever seen anybody get shot. I mean, according to this documentary, I watched that, I don’t know. With no shirt on. So they, they had to like build. Like skeleton, like ribs and things and stuff. Yeah, around, around his body. Like a, like a, a plastic thing around his body to make it appear like it was his body and then the squib.

Could explode out of it.

Todd: Gotcha.

Craig: And the effects in this are great. And you mentioned, but we must draw attention to the fact that this is directed by Tom Savini, one of the most reputable and respected special effects guys in the industry, period. Yeah. But this is his directorial debut, correct?

Todd: Correct.

Yeah. Yeah. And he said it was a nightmare. Yeah. He didn’t enjoy the experience because he was constantly being meddled with during production, right? He got, he said about 40 percent of his original vision made it up on screen and the rest of it He said because George Romero wasn’t around to go to bat for him, I guess It was the producers who all had so many opinions and forced him to do things he didn’t want to do Yeah, that’s such a bummer.

Yeah, did you hear more detail about that in the documentary? No, not really You It makes me wonder what he

Craig: wanted to do because the things that he did do though. There aren’t a ton of differences. I don’t know if this was him or if it was the studio, but it’s very much like the first one in the documentary that I watched, I did read that he wanted.

Kind of cast some characters so that they would be reminiscent of the characters that you remembered in the first movie, like specifically the one that when he was saying that the ones that they showed were the basement dads. They’re very similar.

Todd: Yeah, they look similar. They act. Almost exactly the same.

Right. I have to say, I This is why I felt the movie I felt the movie was a little uneven, because I felt the times when they were trying especially hard to make it reminiscent of the original, were some of the weaker moments of the movie. And I thought that the basement dad and the mom thing was pretty weak.

I did not think that that mom’s acting was good at all. That was just Embarrassingly bad and every time it comes to the dad it gets very Melodramatic and I don’t know, you know, you could argue the original was quite melodramatic as well But it was but somehow it worked in a black and white B movie Whereas for me in this update Especially seeing some of the good stuff that was happening with Tony Todd’s character, some of the more interesting, more modern stuff that was happening with Barbara, which threw me for a loop.

Yes. It just, it just felt like out of place to have this melodramatic Moments with this guy and I mean don’t get me wrong this I liked this bit about the original like I told you this was The thing that frustrated me as a kid like why won’t this guy get along with everybody? Why is he so selfish and then to see the parents get there and the way they do in that movie at the hands of You know their own daughter which comes out of left field because I think by that point in the original movie We’ve almost kind of forgotten that she’s still down there, you know, and we also don’t really Understand that people We’ll come back to life quickly after they’re dead, you know, I think it’s the I might be wrong about this But I think it’s the first time and and only time it happens to one of the main characters in the movie, right?

Yeah, the ones in the house anyway So, you know all of that was very impactful to me and I and this guy’s performance like I said was almost Second for second, beat by beat, line by line, the same as that guy’s in the old movie. I think it worked a lot better played up against Barbara screaming hysterically, like the stereotypical screaming hysterical woman who’s pretty much useless for most of it, which is a little eye rolling, you know.

But again, it kind of fits with the time, the way movies were. Provides a nice counterpoint to the very strong and capable main character who happens to be black and there’s some racial tension there. The stew, I think, worked a lot better for me in the original, whereas it just felt very uneven to me with this one.

And although I recognized it as being homage to the original, and I like that aspect of the original, I just didn’t think it worked in this mix. And I would have liked to have seen it be a little more realistic, you know, in that sense, that part of it.

Craig: Gosh, I just felt. Entirely differently. I was ready to say to you, like, I think this is a great remake.

And maybe I already did say this. I think I already did say that because you said it. I get what you’re saying. Like, if you’re going to remake it, remake it. I love the things when. It’s what I remember from the original, and it’s close to it, like, if you’re gonna do it, like, really do it. Yeah. And I feel like he does.

Clip: Fair.

Craig: But then he also does other things, like, the, the gore is updated, so I’m, I’m kinda conflicted on that, but I do agree with you, I, I hope we agree, that the new stuff that he does with it. Barbara in the original is insufferable.

Todd: Yeah, she’s super annoying.

Craig: They should have just killed her from the beginning.

Like, like the human people, not even the zombies, like the human people should have just killed her, like they should have just kicked her out. Would

Todd: have been a lot easier for them to Yes, but here he goes completely opposite now Barbara starts kicking ass almost as soon as she arrives

Craig: And and they do the whole thing.

I from the beginning. I’m not gonna try to go through the whole thing I swear like it kind of looks like it’d be black and white for a second and Tom Savini Wanted it to be black and white in the beginning and then for color to like start coming in like Wizard of Oz I guess I don’t know whatever but

Todd: When the zombies open the door.

Craig: It’s like this big moon rising. And then it opens the same way that the last one, or excuse me, the first one does with this brother and sister.

Todd: Yeah. Bill Moseley.

Craig: Right. I didn’t even recognize him because I feel like this is one of those moments. Where I feel like they’re paying such tribute to the original.

Like it’s not exactly the same because he starts taunting her in the car before they even get out. But he is costumed to look so much like the guy from the original, from that classic clip where he comes up from behind the tombs and was like, they’re coming to get you, Barbara. I loved that. It’s great.

It’s great. I

Clip: love

Craig: that and it’s those winks and nods where it’s true to the original that I really appreciate and I appreciate the balance of that against. Then Barbara escapes the same way that she did in the last one where, you know, she gets in the car and puts it in reverse in it and then she runs to a farmhouse and then they’re in a farmhouse forever.

But she is not. Helpless. Yeah. In this movie at all. Correct. In the thing she addresses in this movie what infuriates me that they don’t address in the original. She keeps saying Look at them. They’re slow.

Todd: Yeah

Clip: They’re so slow We could just walk right past him I wouldn’t even have to run I could just walk right past

We have the guns.

Craig: We could just walk the f k out of here and Ben, Ben, who is supposed to be the voice of reason in the first movie and in this movie, but I feel like he’s never really confronted with it. With it in the first movie, but in this movie, he just keeps saying, nah, shut up. No,

Todd: honestly, that’s one of the big differences here between this one and the original.

And the original Ben is pretty much like the only voice of reason. Ben is the leader. He’s in charge. He’s pretty much the only person making all the right moves and doing all the right things and trying to get everybody to pitch in.

Craig: As the audience, you are meant to trust him. You are on his side. Yes. He is the voice of reason.

Todd: 100%. Correct. But in this one, he’s got competition. She is very quickly also able to hold her own, picks up a shotgun, and is shooting away zombies when nobody else is, and is coming up with good ideas, and volunteering to go do things. I mean, it’s not only is it a total 180 from Barbara in the first movie, but it’s like we have two, main stars here where in the original very clearly there was one protagonist that we Trust and are on his side and is kind of leading the way and doing all these things

Craig: I don’t have that actress’s name in front of me.

I don’t know if you do or not

Todd: Patricia Tallman.

Craig: Yeah, she was great Fantastic and and she’s a stunt woman. She was mostly a stunt woman. Mm hmm, and she’s done some acting She was a stuntwoman The iconic witch from Army of Darkness, Army of Darkness, one of them at least.

Todd: Well, she was in Babylon 5 and um, a couple of the Star Trek TV shows, even, even back to Next Generation.

Craig: I thought she was great. Yeah, she was a badass. She was I think that’s one of the things, you know You said Savini said he got about 40 percent of what he wanted I think this is one of the things that he got he didn’t want her to be weak and pathetic He wanted a strong woman in the vein of Sigourney Weaver like that’s specifically what he was thinking of

Todd: He gets it to the point where the statement that the movie ends up making because all of these Night of the Living Dead movies, Day of the Dead or whatever, always make some kind of political statement, seems to be more about gender roles now.

Then, uh, about race and racism, like the first one was. That’s true. And that’s a, that’s a modern update that makes sense, you know? It makes sense to do that. The ending is extended considerably, and I thought it went on a little too long. A little past where I was interested, to be honest. I mean, I was interested to see where it was going.

But I’ve seen The Walking Dead, so I’ve already seen a vision of what people are going to do with zombies once they’re kind of cool with them being around. I thought that was a little overplayed, and it wasn’t as shocking as the ending is in the original. And it doesn’t need to be. I just kind of expected another gut punch, you know, in this one, like I got in the first one.

And, uh, this This really didn’t have it. It just kind of, it just kind of ends. Ha ha ha, you know? I mean, I mean, you want to talk about the ending? We’re, we’re 20 minutes in. I mean, we can jump around, but no. Alright, we’ll save our, we’ll, we will talk about the ending later. Alright, let’s go back to her.

She’s in the house. She’s a badass. Tony Todd, they’re rounding up all the others. There’s a girl and a boy. Poor boyfriend and girlfriend. Yeah. His uncle has the house. You know, after they board up all the windows and doors, they decide their best bet is to try to get the keys to the gas pump, which must be in the house somewhere.

Craig: Oh. You know? I know, I know. Yeah. And all of that is the same that, yeah. You just described both movies accurately.

Todd: Right.

Craig: One of the things that I liked about this movie, but it also made it confusing, and I know I’ve already alluded to it with. The girl that we were just talking about, but sometimes, especially when they first get to the house, zombies come around and Tony Todd just whoops their ass.

Todd: He’s an action hero in this one. What are you

Craig: scared of? He just whooped their ass.

Todd: At one point he’s out on his own, right? I mean, it’s later in the movie, but it’s, and he just, he just plowing through those things. They’re surrounding him and he has no trouble just like taking them out, getting them at the knees, like a football tackler, whacking them around.

And they’re coming up behind him. He just does that whole, like the backwards punch thing with his fist. Like it’s kind of funny.

Craig: There is some part in the movie where he puts his hand up by Barbra’s face, his hands are

Todd: huge. Yeah, they are

Clip: huge.

Todd: I mean, he’s always been a big guy. He’s a tall dude. Yeah, he’s a big guy.

Yeah. He’s six foot five, man.

Craig: He’s very big, but I was talking, I have a friend. I won’t mention him by name cause I don’t want to embarrass him, but he’s a big guy. And I was just talking to him about this. I was like, you’re a big guy, but you don’t really like occupy a big space. Like your hands are small.

I feel like, no, no, no, no, no. I feel like Tony taught us like that. I feel like with men, especially when you’re that big. That can be threatening and intimidating. You’re a tall guy, Todd. I don’t know.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Do you understand what I’m saying? Like

Todd: Yeah, some people are tall and imposing. And other people are just tall.

And I always try my best to not, you know, look down on people and things. To the point where my posture’s bad, actually. I I, uh, I ruined my posture when I lived in Japan, and I was surrounded by a lot of people who were considerably shorter than I was, and I thought that if I just bent over a little bit more, that it would somehow put them more at ease with me.

Instead, it just made me stoop over.

Craig: Yeah, there’s definitely, you know, something about physicality, but I, I just feel like Tony Todd, I know he’s a big guy. He’s an imposing guy. And his voice is, you know, it’s just amazing. And it could be anything. It could be scary. It could be, I’m just saying like, he can be a zombie ass kicker.

Yes, yes, yes. But also not scary. Like, Oh, right. When he’s trying to explain things to people and when he’s trying to talk to Barbara, like he can be kind. Yeah. There’s a soft side of him. I mean, for lack of a better word, that, that sounds scary. Stupid, but he’s, he’s not just scary guy. And I, I actually kind of feel like he is a little bit more nuanced than the guy in the original.

The guy in the original gets really angry in the end. Yeah. But wouldn’t you, of

Todd: course, of course, you’re right. I really like this acknowledgement. That the zombies, kind of individually, or even in much smaller groups, are really not that hard to beat. And, that is, we’re almost constantly reminded of that throughout this movie.

And how easily, She keeps saying it! She keeps saying it.

Craig: Then it’s like a joke. It made me mad because she keeps saying it. Like, I appreciate everything that they’re doing. And there are several arguments in the first movie. The argument is, do we hole up in the basement or do we take our chances up here?

Right. And there are arguments for both. I agree. With Ben that it makes more sense to stay up here because if they get in at least we have a way out shot it Running for it, right? That makes more sense to me. You get yourself in the basement. They get in you’re stuck down there, but in this remake there’s a third option that she keeps bringing

Todd: Right.

Like, as

Craig: they’re boarding up, oh, this drove me nuts, too. As they’re boarding up the windows, she’s looking out there, she’s seeing them, she’s like, look at them, they’re super slow, we should just leave, like,

Todd: Right.

Craig: It’s not a big deal, and he’s like, no, we have to stay here. The other thing that makes perfect sense, but that drove me crazy, was that they were all that time that they were boarding up the house, they were drawing.

The zombies to them

Todd: right there make it noise, you know, we

Craig: should do yeah Let’s let’s make a lot of really loud noise This is your fault

Todd: Come to think of it It does make Ben turn out look to be like the guy with a little worse judgment, doesn’t it in a way? Cuz he’s obsessed with I think so hoarding everything up.

Well it even hammers the point home comedically when she finally gets out toward the end when she’s out there and She’s just walking around and she’s looking at the zombies and almost chuckling and she just kind of Pushes one or two back right and laughs turns her back on a couple of them as well.

She Is fine. Yeah. Like

Craig: it’s like, yeah. She’s basically surrounded by them and not a big, and she doesn’t even give a shit. She’s like, yeah, this ,

Clip: it’s not a big deal.

Craig: Yep. I don’t know. She has mommy issues. I don’t even remember what that’s all about, but I feel like there’s one zombie that’s like holding a baby doll.

Oh yeah. And she. That’s the one she

Todd: pushes around.

Craig: Like with the shotgun, with the barrel of the shotgun, she keeps like pushing it around and it just won’t go away. Like it’s not a threat. It’s just annoying. And she already has mommy issues anyway. So she just blows his head off. I really did. very much enjoyed this movie, but it was, it was that specifically that really bothered me.

Like, they could have just left at any given time. And some of the things that frustrated me are, are things that they just kept from the original. Like, That whole ordeal, where they have to get the keys. Yeah. They have to get the keys, and then they have to get to the truck, and then they have to get to the gas tank, and then they’re And that idiot’s

Todd: at the gas tank And he has the wrong keys Idiot!

So he decides to shoot the gas tank like a dumb moron, which explodes. Oh my god, what an idiot. That’s the

Craig: top. Oh my god. I liked that dumb kid until he was dumb and shot the gas tank. Yeah. His girlfriend was not particularly a good actor. Well she was, she was

Todd: the screaming woman in this, in this one. Like she didn’t have much more to do than to walk around and be freaking out all the time.

Craig: feel like in the original she was kinda cool.

Todd: Yeah, there definitely became a point where I was like, Oh, so that’s what they did. They just reversed these two roles kind of, I mean, not exactly because nobody was as big of a badass as, as Barbara ended up being in, in this one, but, uh,

Craig: true.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: The basement family felt to me a little bit less believable this time around.

Yes. It was easier. It was easier for me to believe. That a woman would just follow her husband’s directive. I mean, the wife in the first one certainly questions it. It was more difficult for me to believe. You know, I feel like they tried to make the wife in this one a little bit more Like she stood up for herself a little bit more.

A little bit. I don’t know, whatever.

Todd: She was toothless though.

Craig: But it was basically the same.

Todd: Yeah.

Clip: We’re going up. We’ve got to get help for Sarah. I’m not opening that door, Helen, and neither are you. And if you try, so help me out. You Is your daughter lying there? We have got to get her to a doctor. There’s no doctors upstairs, Helen, and there’s no way out of here.

Craig: That whole part was basically the same. One of the things that bothered me about that whole part was, and I guess, I don’t know, maybe it was the same in the original, I don’t know. Maybe it has something to do with filming laws, but their little girl who is dressed like a China doll is a woman. I don’t know.

She’s a woman.

Todd: Yeah, she’s not a girl at all.

Craig: Why is there a full grown woman in, like, bobby socks?

Todd: It’s like Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz all over again, yeah.

Craig: It’s crazy. Other than that, I mean that, that mostly ends up the same way as it does in the original. I’m trying to think of ways that it doesn’t.

Differs because I, I don’t know how else to approach it because come on guys, you, you surely seen night of the living dead. It is a pretty faithful remake of the original. Like there are some differences, especially in the way that it ends, which we’re obviously going to get to, but to go through it. Plot point by plot point would be redundant.

Todd: I think in today’s age, by the time a person is seeing either the original or this film for the first time, they’ve probably already seen so many other more complicated, more intense zombie movies. Fast moving zombies that you know, I don’t even think this movie claims that you know getting bitten by a zombie turns you into one It’s just if you die everything that dies is gonna turn into a zombie because of reasons unknown and and

Craig: Emily the the basement girl got bit.

That’s why she turns into a zombie. Is that the reason though? Yeah Yeah, they specific. I remember they specifically say that she got infected because she was feverish in that In that documentary that I watched, they were talking about, and we’ve talked about this a bazillion times about how horror movies are, they reflect the fears of the time and this came out in 1990, intended or not, this was kind of about the AIDS scare and the mom specifically said, yeah, the mom says she got bit by one of those people.

Oh. And, and, and that Really? So, yes. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. That was a very comp That was a very complicated answer to your very simple

Todd: question. Now I’m way more interested in what you have to say about this. Because, what you learned about this. Because, aside from a reading of that particular line, what else in this movie references the AIDS scare?

Craig: I don’t know. Fear, fear of others, fear of infection, I don’t know.

Let’s just keep talking about the movie. Let’s keep

Todd: talking, I don’t know, let’s talk about the end. Let’s go to the end because it’s so different. Because in the first one, you know, there’s definitely this racial tension. Yeah. And, you know, we’ve said it before in the previous episode, it’s been said a million times that Romero was quite progressive and even casting a black man as a lead in this.

Craig: But may I interrupt you? To, just to say that it’s been a while since I’ve watched the original, and there certainly is, there certainly is racial tension, but this is a small group of people, and while that certainly plays a role, it, it, it, it feels It’s not an overarching theme. Right. I agree, but Within the microcosm of these people, and I feel the same way here.

Yes. Yes. I feel the same way here in this 19, Tony Todd is Black. He’s a big Black guy. He just is, but the character, the character of Ben was not even written for a Black man, like Romero just decided. I don’t even remember why he just decided, or no, I think that guy, the, the original guy came in and auditioned He just so good

Todd: Yeah, that was it.

Yeah, he

Craig: was just so good. He was like, okay.

Todd: I know. I know all this. And then Romero goes on to claim that it never even crossed his mind, which has to be not completely true. It can’t be entirely true. Because if so, the very ending of the film would have just been this huge coincidence, the obvious reading of it, which is, you know, he’s the only one who survives.

He gets up, he starts to walk out of the house, and then he just gets mistaken by a zombie by the police officers and shot. And then we get all these photographs of him being dragged out and pulled out that are very reminiscent of the old photos of lynchings, you know, that occurred back then. Yeah. And this movie has a montage of photographs at the end, but it just seems to be something that They thought they needed to include, because there were also photos in the first one.

Because there’s no thematic element to that. Unless, unless it all just went way over my head. I just saw these still close up photos of them dragging all the random zombies out. Interspersed with every sec every second photo is a close up on her eyes. I was like, what? So then I thought, well that’s an odd way for the movie to end.

But it doesn’t end there. It keeps on going. To where she’s at this like. Sort of encampment, where all these good old boy, for lack of a better term, like stereotypical redneck jerks, who are out there drinking beer and having a barbecue and throwing a big making a big old party out of all this. It’s very bro heavy type attitude there.

And they almost shoot her. Mistaking her for a zombie, but that seems weird because then when they realize she’s not a zombie, they start leering at her. Yeah. And I almost think, God, is she in trouble? That made me very nervous. But then they just walk off. I’m just, I was so confused by how this ending played out that I got this general sense that she’s a woman in a man’s world who was smarter than all of them.

But. The point that was so clear and crystal at the very end of the last movie and that shock value that it had, there’s nothing here. If he’s trying to make a point, and I think he kinda is, it’s, it feels sort of half assed, and then, and then the movie’s done.

Craig: The original ending is more shocking for sure, and I think that There, whether he says he intended it or not, I think there are clearly racial undertones going on there.

Like had that been either a white woman or a white man who had walked out of that house, would they have shot him or them, you know, sight unseen, you know, right. This one I think kind of loses. I almost feel like that’s one of the things that I like about night of the living dead. Overall, as I feel like it has, it makes that statement.

Yeah, I, I, I can’t believe that Romero didn’t, if he didn’t intend it and you know, I teach literature, so I talk about this stuff all the time, you know, we all interpret things differently and you know, our interpretations are valid. I just, I find it difficult to believe that that was it. On his mind. I don’t know why he denied it

Todd: for so long, but

Craig: I think that what Savini.

Wanted to do, and I respect it, he wanted to make a statement about women, that women can take care of themselves. Yeah, I think you’re right. And that they’re smart, and you should listen to them, you big dummy. Because in this movie, one of the other changes is that Ben, Ends up going down into the cellar, like the place that he said, don’t go down there.

Don’t go down there. We can’t go down there. We can’t go down there. And that’s where he ends up trying to hold himself up. I’m still not really entirely clear about what happens down there. Right? Cause he seems to be, I mean, and I, isn’t the daughter already dead? Don’t they kill her at some point? Yeah.

The basement daughter in her sock kills. Both her parents?

Todd: I know she kills them all. No, she doesn’t kill her dad. Her dad gets killed by Barbara. That’s a big change.

Craig: Oh boy, we should talk about that.

Todd: Yeah. Okay,

Craig: so basement dad is a huge dick.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: But, you know. People are dicks. Whatever. I actually felt like he was he was less aggressive.

I kind of feel like base basement. Dad was more physically violent in the first movie. I think you’re right. And in this one, he’s he’s a dick. He’s for sure a dick and they keep threatening each other. It’s hilarious to me that they’re like, uh, Yeah. If you don’t come down here right now, I’m gonna lock it and I’m never gonna let you in and, and, and then Tony Todd’s like, like, they’re just fighting, like, it’s a little bit ridiculous, but Basement Dad, I don’t remember, I think he dies in the first one, but in this one he does not die from the

Todd: zombie apocalypse.

And Barbara leaves. Barbara ends up at some encampment where, you know, she sees all these people hanging out. They’re even playing with zombies. They’ve got them, like, fighting against each other in a fence and all that. It’s actually very Walking Dead in a way. It feels like they’ve stumbled into one of those, like, the governor’s place in Walking Dead or something like that.

Anyway, then she wanders back to the house where the guys have already gone in there and seemingly have been ransacking it and going through it. But the dad pops out from around the corner in the kitchen and goes, Oh, hey, you came back and she raises her gun and shoots him right above the eyes and then turns around to the to the guys behind him and says

Craig: another one for the fire and that’s what the sheriff says about Ben when they shoot Ben

Todd: in the first one.

Yeah,

Craig: another one for the fire. There’s another line That is said I think also by the sheriff something like yeah, they’re dead. They’re all messed up

Clip: It’s

Craig: a silly but classic line from the original and the guy that plays the sheriff in this movie was Johnny the brother in the original nice

Clip: God, I don’t know, I don’t know if we’ve done this movie, it’s credit, and, and, we probably haven’t done

Todd: Tony Todd, his credit?

Yeah. Yeah, Tony Todd’s great in this, his acting is fantastic. I think

Craig: he’s fantastic. He

Todd: clearly proved himself as a horror actor in this, because before this, you know, he was doing stage, he was doing some TV. But this seems to be the, a bit of a turning point in his career because it was just a couple years after this he got Offered Candyman and then Candyman is what just blew up for him and really established him as a horror icon Icon.

And he has been in big, I mean, he’s been in big Hollywood blockbuster movies. He was in The Rock. His list is long He was

Craig: pivotal in the Final Destination series. Oh, yeah, he had that

Todd: He’s like the death character, sort of, right? Yeah. In the Final Destination. In fact, I think that his last role will be released next year in the new Final Destination movie that’s scheduled for 2025.

Oh, I didn’t know that. So yeah, he’s working all the way up to here. And I remember him so well, like, every, just, you know, you see a movie and then he just kind of pops out like Hatchet, right? He’s like the voodoo guy there. Yeah. And it’s just like, they knock on a door and suddenly he opens the door and suddenly you’re just like, Heh.

Hell yeah. It’s Tony, Todd .

Craig: That beca, I feel like that became his thing and I feel like Final Destination made that his thing. Like, we are gonna have a cameo and we’re going to make you really excited about it. And we’re gonna build it up. Build it up, build it up. It’s Tony Todd. Yeah.

It’s so great. Fantastic. And again, you know, obviously we’re a horror podcast and we appreciate him from those things, but he’s done everything, everything. He is a talented actor. And I think that he is also just one of those people who’s very gifted.

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: Genetically, like he’s big and he’s handsome, but also he has a very unique Look, so he can look mysterious.

There are also times when he’s played roles. I can’t remember specifically, but he has played roles where he’s been gentle. Like, I feel like I remember him in scrubs at some point, right? Like, like where he’s, he’s kind, you know, and, and comforting to people and he can do that. I believe he can do anything and the voice to be gifted with an.

Instrument like that is amazing and he was, you know, I’ll remember him from so many things. I, I, I think Candyman is his legacy, but we have reviewed so many movies that he’s popped up in. Yeah. He was in that like jail movie with all the horror icons. Oh God. Ultimately ended up not liking he was in one of the wish master movies, but he would just pop up all the time And it was always such Again, every time he would probably

Todd: Love seeing him such a cool guy and apparently, you know If you were fortunate enough to be face to face with them, he was extremely cool to the fans

Craig: read that too Just like super super Nice and that’s so nice to hear about people.

Tony. Todd was just 70 and it feels like I understand that that’s a good life. You make it that far That’s a good luck that these days it also feels like too soon. Yeah too soon. Yeah, it’s too bad. I Have been a huge fan. I remain a huge fan the man left behind A legacy. He really did. This

Todd: guy will be remembered.

He will. It’s, it’s,

Craig: it’s impressive.

Todd: And then, you know, it was nice to be able to, I mean, we could have reviewed Candyman if we hadn’t already done it, but I actually think it was kind of nice to review his breakthrough horror film. You know, first horror movie was in. I loved this! Yeah! This was good. I

Craig: thought it was fantastic.

I think you should watch it. It’s not amazing. It’s not groundbreaking.

Todd: I really, really enjoyed it. Yeah, and I don’t want to give you the wrong impression either. I didn’t hate it at all. I just thought it was fine. Fair. There were a lot of elements I liked about it.

Craig: To be fair, I Googled, was this made for TV?

Todd: Cause

Craig: it felt a little made for TV. Yeah,

Todd: right. But it wasn’t. God, it just would have been so awesome to see what Savini’s original, like, I know. I wonder what ideas he had for this. But you know who was the, one of the producers behind this was Manaheim Golan, you know, he was one of the canon guys. Golan and Globus, remember?

All the canon films that were going through the 80s and they were just spending money left and right and then when their whole production thing just kind of got sunk under, under dollars I think he went over to work for I don’t remember, was it Columbia? Who produced this film? Was it Columbia? Was it Columbia?

Uh, he became an executive big executive there and he notoriously Had lots of strong opinions, many of them were really dumb. Ha ha ha ha ha! As can be seen by a lot of the canon output. Highly entertaining stuff! Don’t get me wrong, I actually really love the canon movies. For what they are, but Me too.

Very few of them are, you know, you’d consider high art. And I feel like Savini would have brought some real high art to this if he had been given full reign. So, kind of a shame to see that, that, that he was reigned in a little bit like that. But, uh, we still ended up with a fine movie. I liked it.

Hopefully made, made some money back for Romero and his guys as well. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. We are coming up toward the end of the year right now, so if you have requests for us to do holiday movies, It is not too late.

We have not completely nailed down our list of holiday movies for next month. So go ahead and just find us online wherever we are. You can get to our website at ChainsawHorror. com. You can leave us a comment or message there. You can click on the Speak to Us button at the very top. And while I’m bringing that up, I have a message for us, Craig.

Do you want to hear it?

Johnny B Ghoul: Yeah. To the best horror podcast out there. Todd, Craig, this is Johnny B. Gould. And I had to come on here just to let you guys know how much I enjoy your show. I’ve been listening to you guys since August of 2023 and I’m proud to say that I am almost finished with your entire catalog and I’ve enjoyed every second of it.

It’s fantastic. You guys are funny. You have fun. You guys seem really smart when it comes to doing these movies and you really give movies a chance too. Um, I love listening to a lot of the bad movies that you guys have done just because of how You guys make it. You really seem to enjoy yourselves. It really does show.

I’ve recently become a patron at your Patreon page too, and I have to say that there’s some awesome stuff on there. I’m really enjoying it. So I support you every step of the way. I’m always telling people about this. Your show. And I think it’s great that there’s still people like you out there in the world that enjoy horror.

It’s just really a treat and it’s just, it’s a, it’s a good feeling. So with that being said, again, thank you guys so much. Keep up the good work and take care of yourselves.

Todd: So nice. So nice. And I mean, I got to apologize because, uh, Johnny B. Gould here actually sent us that a little while ago. But, uh, with the holidays and stuff coming up, it took us a little while to be able to get to put it up here on the show.

And, uh, he is one of our super fans, Craig. Yeah, I know. He’s really nice. We do a lot of chatting back and forth. He’s

Craig: got a Yeah,

Todd: he’s got a great voice. He should come on the show. It’d be fun. Oh, we’ll definitely get him on the show. Maybe for a Christmas episode. Yeah! He’s got his own podcast, too. We can, um, shout out.

It’s called Two Crippled Zombies, and they have been at it previously under the name Chainsaw Enema, I believe, and got a good thirty or so shows under their belt, and then decided to retool things, and have already put out a few episodes under the new name and new concept. So, uh, you guys should go check it out.

Those guys have a nice, uh, leisurely discussion about horror movies that’s not too dissimilar to our own. You could similarly leave us a message if you go to our website, ChainsawHorror. com, and you click on the Speak To Us link up at the top, you will get thrown to a site where you can just click a button, and uh, you don’t need any special software or anything, you can just leave us a voice message and that’ll go straight to us.

And if you leave us your email address up there, we can also respond directly to it. We’ll put you on the show, uh, we’ll thank you so much, just like we thank, uh, you. Johnny B. Gould here for listening and for being a longtime fan and patron. Yeah. If you’d like to get in on the patron action as well, go to patreon.

com slash chainsaw podcast. Boy, we really did a number of things really special for October. We have minisodes, we have a lot of discussion, we have that book club going along that started out as a Christopher Pike book club and seems to have grown into a mutant zombie of its own. We’re doing what, V. C.

Andrews and frickin R. L. Stine? Yeah,

Craig: for now, for now, but we’re just, we’re expanding. Yeah!

Todd: We’re broadening our horizons. That’s right. But it, no matter what it is, it’s what people want and it’s fun and we’re all having a blast. And we’re making really good friends along the way, so, uh Yeah. If that sounds appealing to you, it’s just five bucks a month to get in on that and, uh, support the show and become part of the team.

Just check it out, patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast. Also, like I said, uh, we do need those suggestions for your holiday horror movie, so find us there. Find us just by Googling. You can find our Facebook page, our, uh, Twitter feed, whatever. Just leave us a message at any one of those places and, uh, let us know what your idea is for our Holiday Horror Movie Marathon coming up in December.

Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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